The Trayvon Martin hoax

[Michaels153]

[Mrtazeman]

Lets look at we know to be the facts

1) Trevon Martin, a Black teenager, was walking through a neighborhood with a box of skittles and ice tea

2) Zimmerman followed Trevon Martin with a loaded gun

3) Zimmerman was ORDERED by authorities not to follow this kid

4) There was an altercation and Trevon was murdered..


Bottom line if the circumstance were reversed Michaels would be Outraged and would want to hang the black kid...

Justice WAS NOT SERVED...

[Michaels153]

Bottom line(?) The bottom line was that every liberal activist in the country did every thing they could to railroad Mr. Zimmerman into a murder charge. Obama and all of the democrats in DC, with all of their allies in the media were willing to do whatever they could to destroy Mr. Zimmerman but the evidence was not there to convict him. The liberals and Democrats followed their same playbook with President Trump and Justice Kavenaugh as they did with Mr. Zimmerm. Facts be damned. Rule of law be damned. But in the end, it wont be the facts nor the rule of law that will be damned.

[Mrtazeman]

No Michaels, this isn't a liberal or conservative issue. This is an issue where an innocent kid that was murdered in which his crime was being black while drinking a can of ice tea and eating skittles while walking through a white neighborhood. It was about a mother who lost a child, it was classmates who lost their friend.. It was a sick day in America and you celebrate it like it was the fourth of July...

As for Zimmerman, you might want to check his background before you jump in bed with him..

[Michaels153]

[Mrtazeman]

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

Michaels, subsequent events with Zimmerman demonstrate that he probably killed Trayvon without justification https://www.newsweek.com/george-zimmerm ... tin-459300 It is a litany of events. It would have been better for humanity if Zimmerman had just left Trayvon alone instead of murdering him which is what he did.

[Michaels153]

[Mrtazeman]

[leftyg]

MIchaels , it is too bad Michaels that when Zimmerman approached Trayvon that his father saw his son and figured he needed help. So he got his gun and shot Zimmerman. That would have been somebody protecting his family wouldn't it. No Zimmerman went looking for a fight and murdered an innocent kid. History has shown that my ending would have been better and more just.

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

Zimmerman is acquitted in Trayvon Martin killing
[quote]By Lizette Alvarez and Cara Buckley
July 13, 2013

SANFORD, Fla. — George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer,... was found not guilty late Saturday night of second-degree murder. He was also acquitted of manslaughter, a lesser charge.

After three weeks of testimony, the six-woman jury because he assumed the hoodie-clad teenager was a criminal and instigated the fight that led to his death.

In finding him not guilty of murder or manslaughter, the jury agreed that Mr. Zimmerman could have been justified in shooting Mr. Martin because he feared great bodily harm or death.

The jury, which had been sequestered since June 24, deliberated 16 hours and 20 minutes over two days. The six female jurors entered the quiet, tense courtroom, several looking exhausted, their faces drawn and grim. After the verdict was read, each assented, one by one, and quietly, their agreement with the verdict.
Mark O’Mara, one of Mr. Zimmerman’s lawyers, said, “George Zimmerman was never guilty of anything except firing the gun in self-defense.”
He added that if Mr. Zimmerman was black, he likely would never have been charged. “This became a focus for a civil rights event, which is wonderful event to have,” he said, “but they decided George Zimmerman was to blame and to use as a civil rights violation.”

And while defense lawyers were elated with the verdict, they also expressed anger that Mr. Zimmerman spent 16 months filled with fear and trauma when all he was doing was defending himself.

“The prosecution of George Zimmerman was a disgrace,” said Don West, one of Mr. Zimmerman’s lawyers. “I am thrilled that this jury kept this tragedy from become a travesty.”

George Zimmerman found not guilty of murder in Trayvon Martin's death


George Zimmerman found not guilty

[leftyg]

Michaels, the verdict in the Zimmerman trial was just jury nullification by a bunch of racists.

Given this argument. OJ dmust have been innocent because the jury acquitted him.

[Michaels153]

Leftyg, there is an old baseball story of an argument with an umpire at home plate. After the argument was settled the umpire was asked about the strike zone.
The umpire is reported to have said: There are balls and there are strikes, but they are nothing until I call them.
As simple and true as that story is, it applies to our legal system as well. There are many court rulings that have been controversial in the eyes of the parties directly involved and from society. But consider what you are saying, and then consider the consequences of what you are implying.

First what you are saying: "the verdict in the Zimmerman trial was just jury nullification by a bunch of racists."
You did not know Mr. Martin nor Mr. Zimmerman personally in order to speak of either's actions nor tendencies.
You were not present at the scene of the incident between Mr. Martin and Mr. Zimmerman to be a witness.
You did not observe the police who responded to the scene and therefore did not witness their work in assessing and investigation the scene of the incident.
You do not know any of the members of the jury in order to make an assessment of their capabilities to process information and to make a judgement on the case.

These are the obvious and true facts of what you do not know. And what you do not know means that your information, from what to make a conclusion about is incomplete. You therefore can not make an informed decision about the outcome of this trial. You can only express your opinions about it. But that goes with just about everybody, because to some extent or another, there are aspects of every trial that is not known, even to the parties directly involved.

And now, consider the consequences of what your implying.
In our justice system, one is presumed to be innocent until proven to be guilty. And if as a result of the trial, one is judged to be guilty, then that person is now guilty until proven innocent. This is the essence of our judicial system and it does present to the people, a sense of fairness to all concerned. The people have reason to have confidence in a justice system that inwardly contains the mechanisms to be fair, and that is outwardly, transparent to the public. But if everyone felt that they were in a better position to make the correct judgements of the court from outside of the court, then every decision would foment public distrust of the system and bring about a sense of chaos where no decision is to be trusted, that there is no justice, and the only fair alternative as a result would be to take matters in one's own hand, and become a law unto themselves.
Our judicial system provides people the process to appeal any decision that they feel is wrong or unfair. That too is reason for the public to have confidence in our court system. Trust (not blind trust), but trust in our courts allows for our society to live at peace with one another. And that is as it should be.

[Mrtazeman]

Stop avoiding the question. Do you believe OJ Simpson is innocent?

[Michaels153]

The name of this thread is: "The Trayvon. Martin Hoax. I started this thread. I will write and post what i choose to.

[leftyg]

[Mrtazeman]

I just don't understand how people like Michales don't understand why most people are upset. Leftyg, if you were going for a walk minding your own business, drinking ice tea and eating Skittles And i came after you with a gun, do i deserve what is coming to me?

Sad that Zimmermen is respected in right wing world.

[leftyg]

Real, George Zimmerman is respected on the right because he gives them a condition and an excuse to be racist. Period. They hate the poor and the black and they love their guns.

On various occasions Zimmerman has shown us who he is, and people like Michaels refuse to condemn him.

[Michaels153]

It seems like the whole world except these two trolls have moved on and accepted the finality of the court's decision.

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

"You and Real agree." That's just as stupid as Real's " for disclosure purposes. "
You two losers are wrong about just about everything you post about so when you two agree with each other its a joke.

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

Hey leftyg Shmuck. Try adding up all the times you called people names. Mic drop.

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

Leftyg, Did you see the article from which this thread started from? Did you read the title of the article? Did you read the author of the column? I did not say you didn't but then your saying I call it a hoax. "You call it a hoax and that is just Trump bullshit." Did you look up the definition of murder? Did you see the article I provided a link to from CNN? What was the title of that CNN article? Did the Martin - Zimmerman trial conclude with a guilty verdict? Did you call the jurists in the trial racists?

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

Look, I did not get sidetracked. The writer said a bunch of stuff I find speculative at best. BTW I did not see any source documentation in it, just his opinion. That he tied abunch of future events to it is very specualtion. I mean we have more killings by poloce then any country in the world by long shot https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -countries https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/8/1 ... -homicides My argument about the police getting killed was that it is their own behavior that causes it and the behavior of the right wing cheerleaders. It is wrong to kill anybody, moreless a policeman, but don't think that the Trayvon Martin murder had anything to do with it. And Black Lives Matter is a grou that is feed up with the killings, and they want them to end.

I just think that the author assumed too much. I don't know all the answers and neither does he. I do know the statistics I cited were correct.

[Michaels153]

So you dont think Trayvon Martin's death had anything to do with the killings.

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

You speak such nonsense that i stopped reading your post. You definately are not interested in the truth, nor in finding the truth. You will say whatever you think forwards your ideology. You have lost yourself in self delusion.

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

Justified self defense is already accepted in law. I don't have to justify, what already is a legal right. Everyone has a right to defend themselves. And nobody has to justify that right or any other legal right.
It really is a shame that losers like you don't respond to remedial tutoring, and instead parrot talking points. George Zimmerman defended himself. Martin died trying to kill Mr. Zimmerman, but you get bored, and like the troll you have become, you just have to ignore the law, the court verdict, and repeat your BS about this incident. People do not need a lecture from partisan pukes like you on vigilantes. Drop it already.

My position has been posted here. I have accepted the court's verdict. You have not accepted the court's verdict. I have made the sensible and mature choice to accept reality. You have made the choice to live in the past and to only accept what you want to regardless of the law or anything else. [color=#FF0000]Killing in self defense is the only argument that was presented at the trial, not what you want to make up. George Zimmerman did not murder anybody. George Zimmerman can do whatever he wants to do now since he is a free man. You, as in the side that wanted to prosecute Mr. Zimmerman, You had your day in court, and lost.
But now like Adam Schiff, or Christopher Steele, your still trying to peddle your crap about this court verdict.
Get a dictionary, and look up the word racist. I don't act like a racist. Disagreeing with you is not evidence that I am a racist you pathetic pos.

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

Hey Leftyg, my February 11th post here in this thread has 3 references documenting the conclusion of the George Zimmerman trial. That is my evidence. You said i needed to come up with evidence, well there it is. All the evidence was already presented in the trial. There is no need to present any more evidence.
All your innuendo, and liberal talking points changes nothing. Presenting other cases in your feeble attempt to make a correlation mean nothing. You tried to do the same thing against President Trump. You failed against President Trump and you failed against Mr. Zimmerman. You were wrong about President Trump from the start and you were wrong against Mr. Zimmerman from the start. You still refuse to accept that you were wrong about both from start to finish, except with you it is not finished. But it is finished. Your finished.
You brought up Emmett Till here. But I brought his case being reopened in discussing Hilary Clinton. You really have nothing to say, nothing to add. All you do is vent. You rant you whine and you call me a racist. You are pathetic.

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

God, grant me the serenty to accept the things i cannot change, courage to change the things that I can, and wisdom to know the difference.

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

Leftyg for all your inane accusations people fully understand you and others like you. 1 John 2:4 says: "He that saith I know
him, and keepeth not his commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him." And John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." You really are twisted. You think Trayvon Martin was innocent, but George Zimmerman is guilty of something that our law says that he is not. You do not know Jesus Christ. People can see that just by what you post.

Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior. I follow Him and no other.

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

Trayvon Martin was an innocent young man innocent young men do not beat people's heads into the sidewalk.who adds one to the number of victims of people who inappropriately used a gun. Trayvon was no threat to George Zimmerman, and Zimmerman, by following Trayvon created the incident. And several times Zimmerman has had confrontations where he has threatened other innocent people, and you still defend him. AND if, in the New Testament, you can find Jesus defending anything like stand your ground, please inform me. Jesus told Peter to turn the other cheek in the Garden of Gethsemane. I cannot conceive of a good Christian so in love with violence and hatred.

It makes no sense. and the fact that you care so much about this is disturbing to me. I get tired of having to tell you that spiritually 2=2=4. In your Christianity up is down and down is up. You called Father Koesel practically a heretic. Bob Frantz is a perfect example of somebody that is anathema to Christianity and human decency. I will give you this logical argument "all Christians are decent human beings, but not all decent human beings are Christians" If you want to be a Christian, you cannot slavishly support evil.

Now, myself, you will never see me defend abortion. I may grudgingly tolerate it, and I allow a woman her right of choice because she knows her own needs better than I. But I am not enthusiastic about it. Conversely, you seem to be doing cartwheels supporting this scumbag Geroge Zimmerman.

Now, I do not hate George Zimmerman. I think he needed a prison sentence, that is all. I am not a vengeful person, and I know Christianity is not a vengeful religion, at least not when it is practiced correctly. You see to love God or Jesus, you have to love what they created: you have to love human beings, with all their flaws; you have to love Trayvon Martin. And I do not see it in what you write. To borrow from Shakespeare "Methinks that Michaels doth protest too harshly." [/size][/quote]

Now you have addressed your few things. People normally talk things through, and if they have a dispute that they can't resolve they may seek arbitration, hire a lawyer, go through the courts, etc. You quoted my phrase of unhindered right to defend ones self and implied that I consent to settling disputes with a gun. With all of the posts I have here in this forum, not one of them even implies that. And it is almost juvenile to to say " if people were allowed the "'unhindered right " to defend themselves, there would be a lot of dead people, most unjustly, in our society." Regarding the second amendment right, to attach conditions on the right to bear arms as to meaning: Only if you get a license, only if you keep your weapon at home, only if you get prior permission to transport your weapon to a shooting range of the local government's choice, are hindering that right. Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Idaho, Kansas are states where you can open carry without a permit. There are 15 states that you can open carry with a permit. There is no need to go any further in describing the differences of second amendment rights when you can see the difference in open carry with or without a permit. Open carry without a permit is unhindered. Open carry with a permit is hindered. The examples that I gave referred to some of the restrictions from states like New York and New Jersey.
No more statistics of gun deaths are needed here for the purpose of this thread. By saying Bob Frantz is a perfect example of somebody that is anathema to Chrstianity and human decency, you are judging him and that is not what the Lord Jesus Christ said should be done. - Matthew 7:1
If I were to memorize every statistic you posted on gun's and gun deaths, and repeated them back to you verbatim, it would not matter to you unless I cam around and accepted your position on guns and gun deaths. But as we have discussed this issue, at length, I do not agree with your position, and you do not accept my position. I am not questioning your religion, or your beliefs, but you have questioned mine, just because I do not accept your position on this.

Now in your view, is Bob Frantz "slavishly supporting evil?" Am I "slavishly supporting evil?"
You say you do not hate George Zimmerman. Do you consider your posts about George Zimmerman then to be an act of Christ's love? Because we as Christians are called to love one another.
Regarding abortion. Okay you grudgingly tolerate it. Are you showing Christian love to the woman who chooses to have an abortion?
Are you showing Christian love to the baby inside every woman's womb, who is about to be aborted?
You said; "and I allow a woman her right of choice because she knows her own needs better than I."
By prioritizing the woman's right of choice and acknowledge her needs, you are placing her needs above another. Is that a Christian act?
Is placing your needs above another's needs a Christian act?
You said: "to love God or Jesus, you have to love what they created: you have to love human beings, with all their flaws; you have to love Trayvon Martin.
Do you love George Zimmerman? Do you love President Trump?
'You said: "And I do not see it in what you write." [color=#FF0000]I do not see your love for George Zimmerman or President Trump in what you write.
Matthew 7:1 " Judge not, that ye be not judged. Verse 2: "For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

I did not avoid the question. iIf you read my post you know that I am not a big fan of abortion and you know that I said that George Zimmerman belonged in jail,not put to death by the court.
As far as Donald Trump is concerned, he is the most singularly unchristian person in America. He is a braggart who lacks both empathy and character. He will not take responsibility for anything while taking credit for things others have done. He is quite simply a fascist who is not a strong leader which is a bad combination. And yet this is what you said, this is your Christianity: " ;

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

Here you are Leftyg.

1) If I Had a Son': Race, Guns, and the Railroading of George ...books.google.com › books
Jack Cashill - 2013 - ‎No preview
Argues that the major media, state government, U.S. Department of Justice, the White House, and the entertainment industry conspired to put George Zimmerman in prison.

2) The Trayvon Hoax: Unmasking the Witness Fraud that Divided ...books.google.com › books
Joel Gilbert - 2019 - ‎No preview
In this stunning work of investigative journalism, filmmaker Joel Gilbert uncovers the true story of the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, a tragedy that divided America.

3) Defending Our Friend: The Most Hated Man in America : the ...books.google.com › books
Mark Osterman, ‎Sondra Osterman - 2012 - ‎No preview
The sound of a single gun shot cut through the quiet, rainy evening and a lanky, black teen, Trayvon Martin, fell to the ground. The shooter was someone Mark and Sondra Osterman spoke with daily.

[leftyg]

Throwing up idiotic right wing smack is not defense. You might as well put up the Klan news letter.

I wonder what Pope Francis would say or what Jesus would say..

No, if you have an argument you had better lay out something better than this crap

[Michaels153]

I have already defended George Zimmerman. I offered you some sources that would help you balance your perspective. I am not going to discuss George Zimmerman or Trayvon with you anymore. So run along and whine about something else to someone else.

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

leftyg your still an ass. My thread. I post what i want. Because you don't understand my post does not mean i do not have a point. Not going to explain anything to you because i don't even want a conversation with you.

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

Michaels, this stuff about Obama is pointless. It does not have anything to do with the racism that seems to affect so many Southern Christians and their supporters. I cannot imagine a person who supports killing young black men as being much of a Christian at all. Can I see forgiving George Zimmerman? Yes I can, but you persistent defense of him is perplexing. I mean thisa is the 69th post in this thread, and that is way too many. Your obstinate defense is curious.

But most of all Michaels this has become a red herring. President Obama is no longer in office, and last time I looked he supported Trayvon and his family.

And my on point comment that George Zimmerman was a bad actor stands. That a Southern jury acquitted him is par for the course. As Real has repeatedly told you, that like OJ this was jury nullification; white people are not going to convict a white guy for killing a black kid in the South.

[Michaels153]

Leftyg, you troll, the Obama reference points out the hypocrisy of you, the left, and any other democrat that seek to use the killing of a person of color to condemn a target population, while ignoring the killing of another person of color.
A jury votes on the merit of the case and the foreman of the jury delivers the results to the judge who announces the verdict of the jury. The judge never announces the verdict by referencing the religion, or lack of religion of the jurors you bigot.
What you can or cannot imagine is of no relevance. Your persistent defense of Hillary, Obama, or anyone else based on your opinion is also of no relevance. Your obstinate stupidity is beyond measure. Your lack of honesty and common decency is appalling. You never admit when you are wrong, you just look to refocus blame else where.

" white people are not going to convict a white guy for killing a black kid in the South." Wrong again Leftyg, but keep trolling, you racist bigot.

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

[Michaels153]

[quote="leftyg"][size=150]You and Real are not decent human beings. You can say anything while your posts prove otherwise.Becuse my posts do not agree with what you think, then I am indecent. No, your indecent when your indecent, not necessarily when you disagree with me or anyone else.Look, Michaels, I think your values suck. Naturally you think mine do. I would have been surprised by any other response.

Anbody who thinks well of Donald Trump or Rush Limbaugh obviously would think somewhat ill of me. I accept that. I would imagine that Hitler would have hated my guts or that some Klansman would hate my guts. I am beginning to reconcile myself to the fact that there are people who will hate me or think me indecent. That is a start, when you can objectively look at yourself or at least accept an honest assessment of yourself offered by others.
You have ignored the old time advice of being able to catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. You should have changed your commentary years ago
from your indecent, irrelevant, ad hominem comments to "Just the facts, maam."

I know Real a little, and he is a very decent person. but again the people you think are decent , Rush and Donnie, I think are indecent assholes. So it is very hard. It is very hard to argue values with people who have values that are very different from yours. Now that is true, but to continue in the same manner reveals that you don't really care about others who don't share your position or point of view, and takes away from the possibility of constructive dialogue.We have successfully destroyed a factual basis for our disagreements with the right's creation of Fake News and labeling virtually every credible source as Fake News and only incredible source as having legitimate authenticity. [color=#FF0000]And here is your latest example of the difference between having a disagreement and being "decent". I have published posts of the New York Times, and other sources that you hold in high esteem, of providing "false narratives, biased reporting, incomplete accounts of events, and outright lies. By current standards of definition, these fit under the fake news category. But you ignore that, and then make the outlandish claim: " with the right's creation of Fake News". That statement is a lie. That statement is not a "decent statement".
And I do not see the "right", nor conservatives in general, labelling every media source they disagree with as "Fake News." So I am calling you out on that statement as being another lie, by you. You do not have to look any further than my own posts where I have used the New York Times, The Washington Post, and even quoted people from CNN on occasion; not to claim that they were further examples of "Fake News" but that they were reporting factually on some event. My own posts, and my own practices have been to ignore the source, but to focus on the substance of what is being reported. And there are times that the same event, can have different "takes" from the same media source, and I have reported on that as well.

[Michaels153]

[leftyg]

Michaels, I read 1 Corintians 1:11-13 and could find little relevance to the plight of Trayvon Martin.