Another example of Phoney Christians

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Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Mrtazeman » December 8th, 2018, 9:20 am

I believe in the first Amendment, but I’ll tell you what, I’m not voting for a Muslim to serve in any office. Me, personally, I’m not doing it. I’m not doing it. Period. I’m not doing it.”

He added, “The threat to humanity is not merely radical Islam. The threat to humanity is Islam, period. That’s right, I said it and I mean it.”


https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/represe ... 23779.html
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby leftyg » December 8th, 2018, 2:36 pm

I love this comment by Jackson:
“We are a Judeo-Christian country.” He continued, “We are a nation rooted and grounded in Christianity and that’s that. And anybody that doesn’t like that, go live somewhere else. It’s very simple. Just go live somewhere else. Don’t try to change our country into some sort of Islamic republic or try to base our country on Sharia law.”

No we are not; we are a nation that values religious freedom and diversity. The first amendment does not establish a Christian religion; it freedom of religion and freedom from religion. It says:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Representative Omar can practice any religion she wishes, And Jackson will have to like it or lump it. This American Taliban that w'ants to impose Christian Law is no better than an Islamic extremist group that wants to impose Sharia Law.
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Mrtazeman » December 8th, 2018, 3:32 pm

If this is what this minister is preaching to his flock, they should be considered a hate group..
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby leftyg » December 8th, 2018, 5:41 pm

If this is what this minister is preaching to his flock, they should be considered a hate group..
Or an ignorant group. It is stunning.
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Michaels153 » December 12th, 2018, 12:38 pm

First, I want to thank you Real for defending us Christians. When you point out "real" examples of non-christian behavior it helps the public understand what "real"
Christians think and then "real" Christians do not get lumped together with people who may not be "real" Christians.
In the comment section of the article you referenced, there was this:
ev. Chuck Currie was quick to voice support for Omar as well.


Rev. Dr. Chuck Currie

@RevChuckCurrie
As a #Christian minister, let me say to U.S. Rep.-elect @IlhanMN that your victory is a victory for #pluralism and #religiousfreedom. Bigotry is not a faithful response to God. My prayers are with you as you join #Congress. Congratulations! https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1071 ... 56098?s=21


So keep up the good work. We need people like you and Rev. Currie defending us Christians and setting the record straight.

This mini-row reminds me of the non flap regarding Michelle Obama not wearing a head covering while she was in Saudi Arabia. See "Michelle did nothing wrong" (January 28, 2015) In that thread I pointed out that Michelle was not a citizen of Saudi Arabia and therefore should not be subject to the customs of that country. Wobbly applauded both Scorpion and myself for defending Michelle Obama back then. But there were those in the comment section that did not agree. There were women who wrote that Mrs. Obama was being immodest by not covering her head.
This example here is about Rep. elect Ilhan Omar who is a citizen of our country, but also wants to wear her head covering while in Congress. She knows that there is a 181 year old ban on headwear on the floor of the u.S. House of Representatives. (That ban is non gender specific)
Now what I found interesting here is that Ms. Pelosi wants the rule changed so that Rep. elect Ilhan Omar can wear her headcovering. If she gets the rule changed so that headcovering's are allowed, fine. But if not, what then?
The liberals have no use for customs but they also have no use of religion. Rep. elect Ilhan Omar's head covering is part of her religious custom. If the United States is not a Judaeo / Christian country, it is also not a Muslim country. If Christians are banned from displays on public and government property, then what of religious displays within government buildings?

Oh and Real, when you do make a thread like yours and you use a plural form of the noun in the title of your thread, your readers would expect to read about more than one example or at least they would expect to read about more than one individual.
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Re: Another example of Phony Christians

Postby Mrtazeman » December 12th, 2018, 1:31 pm

How about Donald Trump as another example of a phony Christian?? Religious freedom only pertains to Christians, with right wing people. Perfect example is making a hero out of Kim Davis.. Fox News and the republicans made her out to be a hero but when there was a Muslim flight attendant who refused to serve alcohol drinks due to her religion (but was doing everything else), Fox News were all for her getting fired. There is another example of a phony Christian for you, Kim Davis
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Re: Another example of Phony Christians

Postby Michaels153 » December 12th, 2018, 6:25 pm

Mrtazeman wrote:it is religious freedom only to Christians, with right wing people. Perfect example is making a hero out of Kim Davis.. Fox News and the republicans made her out to be a hero but when there was a Muslim flight attendant who refused to serve alcohol drinks due to her religion (but was doing everything else), Fox News were all for her getting fired. There is another example of a phony Christian for you, Kim Davis

Well now thats better at least you have two examples to satisfy the plural form in your title.
Do you think that is enough? I mean the population of the United States is roughly 350 million and your research of phony Christians is the comments of one person and the jailing of a clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to homosexual couples.
Kim Davis's actions happened in 2015.
I remember Ms. Pelosi wanting to lecture the Pope on Christianity. Did she enlist your services to report on phony Christians or did you just volunteer your time for this?
You did not answer whether Ms. Pelosi should seek to overturn a 181 year ban to accomodate the religious preferences of someone in her party. Should she seek to do this?
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Mrtazeman » December 14th, 2018, 9:35 am

You did not answer whether Ms. Pelosi should seek to overturn a 181 year ban to accomodate the religious preferences of someone in her party. Should she seek to do this?


You did not answer whether Ms. Pelosi should seek to overturn a 181 year ban to accomodate the religious preferences of someone in her party. Should she seek to do this?


Let’s see, do I want Nancy to seek to overturn 181 year law, A Law when created women were not allowed to vote nor be in government, nor speak their mind and slavery was a thriving business,

Yes, she should bring it up for a debate. Jim Crow Laws would still be in existence if it wasn’t for people questioning laws.

The way I view it, women wearing head wear is a reasonable request and a reasonable accommodation. When your 181 year law was made, no women were represented. It doesn’t prevent women from performing their job with head wear on.

Looks like Ivanka don’t agree with your old laws either:

At least one member of the Trump administration has signaled their approval of the rule change. White House adviser Ivanka Trump re-tweeted The Hill's report on Omar's proposal on Monday, calling it an "important rule change for Congress to make."
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby leftyg » December 14th, 2018, 3:27 pm

Oh and Real, when you do make a thread like yours and you use a plural form of the noun in the title of your thread, your readers would expect to read about more than one example or at least they would expect to read about more than one individual.
As usual Michaels, you are wrong. He wrote "Another Example" which means one example of a common phenomena which if it existed nowhere else in our culture would be a phenomenon. But it was your chiming in that proved it was a phenomena. You proved to be the second which validates the title. But it is a lot more than that lots of far right "Christians" believe in freedom for me but not for thee. I listen to it all the time and is really the underlying reason for my thread on Bob Frantz.

I have long noticed this in the far right. You do not find it in other segments of Christianity where love and compassion seem to predominate. With the right leaning Christian it is contempt for minorities and the oppressed, apologism for racism and extra legal killings, hostility toward other religions and outright support for guns even though the Bible says "he who lives by the sword will die by it." (Matt 26:52).

We are not a Christian country legally, only sociologically. A ban on head wear, especially if were over a religious,would seem to violate the first amendment protection of religious freedom. Would you be opposed to a Jewish congressman wearing a kippa or a yamika? That is another reason Nancy Pelosi wants to get rid of this law.
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Michaels153 » December 15th, 2018, 10:30 am

Would you be opposed to a Jewish congressman wearing a kippa or a yamika? That is another reason Nancy Pelosi wants to get rid of this law.

As usual Leftyg you are wrong, about everything. (And no, i am not going to expand on that statement and refute your comments one by one. So you can lead off with your reply whatever you like. This is not my thread.)
Do you think you are the first person since the 181 year ban on headwear to bring up your question? You see you just love to pontficate about anything even if you repeat yourself. You would do better if you wrapped your writing around Jesus Christ instead of Bob Frantz.
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Mrtazeman » December 15th, 2018, 12:35 pm

The problem for me, isn't Christianity, it is the republicans who uses this religion to con people like Michaels153 to vote for them..

Pentecostals who were some of his earliest religious supporters and who now view his election as the fulfillment of God’s will.


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ent-216537
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby leftyg » December 15th, 2018, 1:18 pm

Would you be opposed to a Jewish congressman wearing a kippa or a yamika? That is another reason Nancy Pelosi wants to get rid of this law.
That is exactly true. There is a congressman coming in who would like to wear his kippa in chambers, and I see nothing wrong with that
As usual Leftyg you are wrong, about everything. (And no, i am not going to expand on that statement and refute your comments one by one. So you can lead off with your reply whatever you like. This is not my thread.)
Michaels, you can say anything; the problem is you do not defend anything. When I say Obama grew the economy and created jobs I have evidence; when you countered, you have no evidence. But facts and evidence do not matter to you because you will go on believing what you want in spite of the evidence. And this not being your thread means nothing.
Do you think you are the first person since the 181 year ban on head wear to bring up your question? You see you just love to pontficate about anything even if you repeat yourself. You would do better if you wrapped your writing around Jesus Christ instead of Bob Frantz.
Like you said, this is not my thread, but think about it. Women in our society have traditionally worn hats and bonnets. The law might have been a subtle way of keeping them out of power and a little left handed if they ever made it to congress. And other religions value their head wear, and that is OK. Michaels, I go after Bob Frantz for his hypocrisy and lying, two things that are easy to prove and backup. He is my local example of this tendency that Real talks about, the phoney Christian and patriot.

You Michaels might better follow Christs teaching than attacking the poor, other religions and embracing anti-union thought and the gun.
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Michaels153 » December 19th, 2018, 7:25 pm

Mrtazeman wrote:The problem for me, isn't Christianity, it is the republicans who uses this religion to con people like Michaels153 to vote for them. I can assure you Real, that nobody could con me to vote in any election on any issue, or any candidate that I did not want to vote for. But as you already know, Christians pray about the problem affecting the voters who are duped by Democrats into following them on every issue.

Pentecostals who were some of his earliest religious supporters and who now view his election as the fulfillment of God’s will.
Since you are a Christian Real, I don't need to quote the scripture from John chapter 15 that would Remind Pentecostals and other Christians of why they would believe that. They also have the Lord's Prayer to remind them of God's will.
But as to the focus of this article, it is curious, that such an important part of billions of people lives is treated in such a superficial manner. To those that do not believe in God, any talk of God, on any subject is silly to them and beyond their understanding. To those people, many of whom will accept anything except God as part of the reason for anything, say that people who win elections do so for any number of reasons and so there really is no need to bring God into the discussion to explain the results of an election.
To the iconic Holmes,who said when you run out of explanations for something what you are left with is the answer you were searching for.
Your article is basically a fluff piece. There is no way of really knowing how each voter was or was not influenced by a thru z and this article does not even attempt to quantify the votes impacted by charismatics.


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ent-216537
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Mrtazeman » December 23rd, 2018, 10:50 am

Here is one of the worst of the worst Laura Ingraham

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 396762002/
Last edited by Mrtazeman on December 24th, 2018, 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby leftyg » December 23rd, 2018, 5:40 pm

I can assure you Real, that nobody could con me to vote in any election on any issue, or any candidate that I did not want to vote for. But as you already know, Christians [s][/s]pray about the problem affecting the voters who are duped by Democrats into following them on every issue.
The first sentence is hysterical :D. You voted for an adulterous, narcissistic, uncharitable, me first jerk, liar, and you can square it with Christianity?! You can vote for people who are rich and comfortable, stealing from the poor and not paying a decent minimum wage or decent taxes (you know what Jesus thinks about paying taxes)?! You defend red neck cops and red neck home owners whose credo is "shoot to kill" and "shoot first ask questions later?!" That is funny if it were not so pathetic. And you are totally oblivious to it. To me that is the reason I cannot stand your phony baloney brand of Christianity.

And the second sentence is condescending and autobiographical. There is a book you should read called the True Believer by Eric Hoffer https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003TO5838/re ... TF8&btkr=1 You should get it and read it as soon as possible. Michaels, I have read your defenses of Trump, and they are vacuous, angry tirades where you make claims you do not back up with a single shred of evidence. Seriously, go over Toulmin's Model as well; you could use the tutorial. https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and- ... t-toulmin/

Now I know all I am going to get from you is a denial and some condescending crap about how I know nothing about Christianity and my politics are stupid. I get that; you claims are stunning, but your backup evidence leaves a lot to be desired.

But you continue:
Since you are a Christian Real, I don't need to quote the scripture from John chapter 15 that would Remind Pentecostals and other Christians of why they would believe that. They also have the Lord's Prayer to remind them of God's will.
But as to the focus of this article, it is curious, that such an important part of billions of people lives is treated in such a superficial manner. To those that do not believe in God, any talk of God, on any subject is silly to them and beyond their understanding. To those people, many of whom will accept anything except God as part of the reason for anything, say that people who win elections do so for any number of reasons and so there really is no need to bring God into the discussion to explain the results of an election.
To the iconic Holmes,who said when you run out of explanations for something what you are left with is the answer you were searching for.
Your article is basically a fluff piece. There is no way of really knowing how each voter was or was not influenced by a thru z and this article does not even attempt to quantify the votes impacted by charismatics.

As much as I venerate Christianity, I do not wish majority Christian rule imposed on everyone anymore than I want Sharia Law imposed; I want religious freedom imposed. Obviously, religious rules have to comply with civil rules. For example, a church that practices ritual human or even animal sacrifices to God cannot be allowed. We are all allowed to believe as we wish in a free society, but it should not be imposed on any of us. You can make all the persuasive arguments you wish, but you cannot impose you values on others. I mean do you realize that the Bible Belt was where slavery flourished, where working others practically to death for YOUR GAIN ONLY was viewed as Christian?

No Michaels, what you consider Christianity is such a joke to begin with, but it gets complicated when you want to impose it on others.
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Mrtazeman » December 24th, 2018, 1:22 pm

This guy is a regular on Fox News


Rev. Jeffress: Trump Fulfilling His "God-Given Responsibility" By Building The Wall, Heaven Has A Wall


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... _wall.html
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Mrtazeman » December 25th, 2018, 9:06 am

No Michaels, what you consider Christianity is such a joke to begin with, but it gets complicated when you want to impose it on others.

Funny, as a so called Christian he supports policies that throws poor people out in the streets and justifying it by calling poor people lazy and worthless while making the wealthier more wealthy.. Look at the people he follows like the druggie Rush Limbaugh, the worst type of humanbeing there is...
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Michaels153 » December 25th, 2018, 12:08 pm

Leftyg: "The first sentence is hysterical :D. You voted for an adulterous, narcissistic, uncharitable, me first jerk, liar, and you can square it with Christianity?! IIt is like someone claiming that you take medicines recommended by your doctor for the side effects. You can vote for people Yes, and you vote for peoplewho are rich and comfortable, As for the nonsense that follows -> I see wild unsupported allegations within your typical ad hominem retorts. It is so pathetic, yet your must find it entertaining because you cling to it. You have no clue that that is exactly how others view you. They see you as one who freely chooses to deny individuality so that you can stereotype anybody into a group of your own making and slander them with lies

Leftyg : "To me that is the reason I cannot stand your phony baloney brand of Christianity." Once you were a Catholic, and now a theistic agnostic. You rejected Christianity a long time ago.

Leftyg: "There is a book you should read called the True Believer by Eric Hoffer - You should get it and read it as soon as possible. Michaels " I already know what a true believer is Leftyg Seriously, go over Toulmin's Model as well Where was Toulmin's model in your response here? I have pointed out other occasions where you did not use Toulmin's Model, and yet it doesn't stop you from suggesting something that you don't. (That is called being a hypocrite, contradicting your own stated position
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Michaels153 » December 25th, 2018, 12:18 pm

[quote="Mrtazeman"]This guy is a regular on Fox News So


Rev. Jeffress: Trump Fulfilling His "God-Given Responsibility" By Building The Wall, Heaven Has A Wall And when are you going to prove the building The Wall is not President Trump's 'God-Given Responsibility? Go ahead work with Leftyg, use Toulmin's Model, and when you think your ready, come back and share :lol:
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby leftyg » December 25th, 2018, 1:59 pm

Michaels, your very words are the proof. Why do you support cruel policies? And often the policies you support are cruel. They are not Christian, and both Real and I have pointed that out. Now if you think that shooting kids for trespassing is Christian; if shooting people for no reason is Christian then own it; if you think taxing the rich less and eliminating social programs is Christian then own it; if exploiting the poor at below living wages is Christian then own it.

The truth is I don't think any of those things are Christian. It sounds to me like you reject the entire social gospel of Christian that Christ enunciated in the Sermon on the Mount. And that is what most right wing Christians do.

As to my adherence to Toulmin's Model: when I argue with you I adhere. Notice our conversations on gun control. I give evidence; you give anecdotes. On health care, I give evidnece; you give anecdotes and the sweeping generalization of far right pundits--"the free market does everything better" even though it does not.

As to the observation by Real that one of your sources was a Fox regular, it matters.

But the bottom line is all this does not really matter. The thing that matters is that we should not impose our beliefs on others by law; we cannot be a legally Christian country or a legally Muslim country or a legally atheist country. We can simply be a country that respects all views of God and elevates none. Particularly the Christianity that you espouse is dangerous.
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Michaels153 » December 25th, 2018, 2:39 pm

color=#FF0000] Your saying I support "cruel policies" That is not the same as actual support of something. I am not going to argue subjective interpretations of religion or government policies. You and Real are two people whose combined knowledge of what a Christian is and what Christianity is beyond suspect.
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Mrtazeman » December 25th, 2018, 3:09 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... -security/

How do u support this while the weathlest people who made out the most in this economy gets huge tax breaks?

Your values are not Christian values
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Mrtazeman » December 27th, 2018, 9:49 pm

Is this religious freedom?

Lanlord kicks tenant out bc her is gay


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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Michaels153 » December 28th, 2018, 5:49 am

Mrtazeman wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/01/gop-eyes-post-tax-cut-changes-to-welfare-medicare-and-social-security/ First the date of this article is over a year old. The Wall Street Journal recently took the Post to task for it's less than objective view on issues with regards to Republicans.
Next, regarding budgetary issues and measures. If everybody outside of government has to live within a budget, why would that change inside the government?
Everybody talks about bringing down the debt except when it comes to matters that affect them. Well the budget affects them, We are all "them".


How do u support this while the weathlest people who made out the most in this economy gets huge tax breaks?
Framed from a true liberal who panders to non republicans out of liberal guilt. I am not a liberal. I do not engage in class envy, and I am not jealous of people who have more than I do. Do you support our laws? Do you believe that our laws apply to all of our citizens? Because if you do, then why would you find fault with anyone who has more than someone else as long as they did not break any laws in making their money. I find no fault in somebody who has more money than another person. I find that to be perfectly understandable. You understand the differences in jobs, vocations, and in various pursuits that as a consequence either pay more than other jobs or provide more opportunity to make more than others. Lawyers, Doctors, Musicians, Athletes, Actors, Writers, Inventors,...etc. There have been rich people in every economy, in every country, and you want to pass judgement down on them that somehow that's not right. Because others have less, no one should have more? Grow up!

Your values are not Christian values

My values are Christian values. You are framing what you perceive to be a problem, or an injustice, and placing the blame on a religion for it? The problem as you see it is not due to or caused by Religion. There are poor in every society, from every background, and from all religions.

And for disclosure purposes, what is your religion?
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Michaels153 » December 28th, 2018, 5:59 am

Mrtazeman wrote:Is this religious freedom?
Well this is a pretty stupid question. What do you think "REAL". Is this REALLY religious freedom? or is it a violation of the law? Boy this is a REAL tough one for you isn't it.
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby Mrtazeman » December 28th, 2018, 10:58 pm

this guy can claim that this is against his religion just like the pizza owner who won't serve pizza at a gay party or a hardware store owner who refuses gay people to shop in his store which you claimed are their religious freedom.. According to you this is religious freedom. I think it's a tough one for you not me...
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Re: Another example of Phoney Christians

Postby leftyg » December 28th, 2018, 11:43 pm

I think this is a tough one "if" I think,or Real thinks, or Michaels thinks that an apartment owner would be within his or her rights to ban Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus or any other religion from renting places in their properties. Christians think, at least it seems to me, that they have the unique right to deny others access because of their beliefs but that others cannot deny them.

I swear to God it seems that conservatives and Christian conservatives will figure out--in the twinkling of an eye-- why it is OK to display the Confederate Flag and why it is not OK to take a knee before a football game; why it is OK for them to ban and not employ secular faculty at religious colleges but required that religious faculty be able to present their beliefs in academic settings unfettered and unchallenged.

I could go on, but this is a disturbing tendency. To be fair it is also a problem with the PC crowd. But who is a bigger snowflake a conservative who pouts because some black athlete takes a knee at a football game or some politically correct person who thinks that "Baby it is Cold Outside" is a rape anthem?
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