Cleveland Talk

by **leftyg** » October 20th, 2017, 12:19 pm

Leftyg, I spent more than 32 years in social services, more than ten of those years was as a licensed independent social worker.so that blows up your ridiculous allegation that I as a conservative have a lack of concern for "actual? human beings after they have been born." I support Law enforcement, but you can not find any evidence of me supporting law enforcement for doing anything wrong. Nor can you find any evidence of your allegation of what I feel about war. These are more of your ad hominem attacks. These are just more of your lame, baseless, lies.
First the attack is not at you personally; it is at conservative writers and talk show hosts who seem to have profound conern for the unborn and no concern for the person after the birth. I can find plenty of evidence that most conservatives will have a hissy fit about abortion, then support a cop no matter what they do or who they hurt, pregnant woman, adolescent child, unarmed man. They will support capital punishment, preemptive war, banning needy immigrants, denying health care to needy people, free lunches to children etc. Truly there is nothing Christian about what most right wing conservatives believe which in so doing hurts the Christian religion because it drives decent people away.

Which all leads back to gun control. No one has ever significantly shown that a gun protects anybody. They will give their anecdotes, but they will not address the fact that a lot of people are killed by the guns they own and that we have a much higher rate of gun homicide than any other technically advanced country in the world.

by **Michaels153** » October 22nd, 2017, 10:14 am

by **leftyg** » October 22nd, 2017, 12:49 pm

by **Michaels153** » October 22nd, 2017, 10:23 pm

by **hmmmmm** » October 25th, 2017, 12:30 pm

by **leftyg** » October 25th, 2017, 6:58 pm

by **Michaels153** » October 25th, 2017, 9:24 pm

by **leftyg** » October 26th, 2017, 4:03 pm

by **Michaels153** » October 28th, 2017, 12:31 pm

by **leftyg** » October 29th, 2017, 10:08 pm

by **Michaels153** » October 31st, 2017, 12:42 am

by **the whispering eye** » November 1st, 2017, 8:48 am

by **the whispering eye** » November 1st, 2017, 9:03 am

by **leftyg** » November 1st, 2017, 10:43 am

First leftyg stands for Lefty Grove, an homage to the greatest left handed pitcher of all-time. And it somewhat reflects my center left political views.

Guns are much more efficient killers than knives. I am a weak physically pathetic 68 year old man. I could kill the most physically imposing person on the planet with a gun, but could do nothing to that person with a knife. So please don't insult people's intelligence with stories. I went to the site and every statement was a questionable opinion. A knife is not more lethal than a gun; a gun can easily kill; a knife takes work. An expert with a knife has as much skill as one with a gun, if not more. The article was bunk.

As to the most vulgar graphic I have ever seen on this site and one I wish JT would pull down, I can show you graphics of bodies torn to smithereens by gun fire, but I will not indulge that pornographic vulgarity for amusement the way our resident vulgarian does.

No Michaels your source bears little weight with me because I find it suspect. Guns are far more lethal the same way machine guns are more lethal than hand guns. To equate knife with guns when all relevant empirical evidence says otherwise is just bunk because it does not make sense and because I will always believe scholars over tabloid journalists and that is what was sited. We have by far the highest homicide rate of any technologically advanced democracy in the world. And most of those homicides were with a gun. http://www.businessinsider.com/oecd-hom ... art-2015-6

by **the whispering eye** » November 3rd, 2017, 7:19 am

by **the whispering eye** » November 3rd, 2017, 7:32 am

by **leftyg** » November 3rd, 2017, 12:35 pm

Thanks eye, that was some interesting history, and I do not doubt it. I never said he was a saint, just a great great pitcher. In a four year period from 1929-1932 he went 103-23 with four ERA titles. Compare that to Sandy Koufax who I would rate number two in his four best years where he was 97-27 also with four ERA titles. In Grove's career he always pitched in a hitters park; in Koufax's career he always pitched in a pitchers park. Grove frequently had ERA's that were half those of the league ERA.

About the pictures: those poor people were dead, and I feel looking at them is pretty sick. A lot of people loved them and that is sacred.

by **Michaels153** » November 3rd, 2017, 10:39 pm

[quote="leftyg"]

Guns are much more efficient killers than knives. Now that is a lot different than saying: "A knife is never as lethal as a gun. Get serious. It is dangerous, but there are countless situations where a knife wielder merely maims people or sends them to a hospital." Lets start with "A knife is never as lethal as a gun." First, you are ignoring the definition of Lethal. lethal

(The Free Dictionary)
le•thal (ˈli θəl)

adj.
1. of or causing death; deadly; fatal: a lethal weapon; a lethal dose.
2. made to cause death: a lethal injection.
So when you say "A knife is never as lethal as a gun" you discount the obvious. Knives kill. Saying that a knife wielder may maim people or send them to the hospital is true, but knives do kill, you can't dismiss that fact by stating that someone may not kill a person with a knife. Guns kill too. But not everyone who is shot dies either.
Next, you said " I could kill the most physically imposing person on the planet with a gun." And I know that there is a possibility that exists that you could. I have witnessed two women in a CCW class taking aim at a target only 15 feet away. They had their hands resting and perched on sandbags, and they only hit the paper, sometimes, never the 9 inch target. And that was only 15 feet away with no stress involved. Shooting a gun accurately is a skill that takes practice to learn. The fact that even trained police officers hit their target, in the field, only about a quarter of the time should tell you that it is not easy.
Your third statement: " So please don't insult people's intelligence with stories." Leftyg, your insulting common sense. Your purposely being contentious here where there is no need to. I challenged Dr. Erin Grinshteyn, who said that "studies have suggested that the non-gun homicide rate in the U.S. may be high because the gun homicide rate is high." I posited a better reason for the non use of gun homicides than what this doctor said about "studies, that have "SUGGESTED" that non-gun homicide rate in the U.S. may be high because the gun homicide rate is high. You went off saying one lethal weapon was not as lethal as another. LETHAL is LETHAL! DEAD is DEAD. Period. Then you wanted to turn this discussion into a different direction based on numbers, which is not what this Dr. Grinshteyn was talking about. I went to the site and every statement was a questionable opinion. There is nothing questionable about the FBI statistics, which I believe is based on 2013 stats. Police officers were more involved in gun attacks than knife attacks, but the percentage of officers who died as a result of their wounds was more from knife attacks than gun attacks. You really should do some more reading on the use of knives as weapons. (including the 21 foot rule) If a trained officer can have so much trouble with an attacker with a knife, think about how the untrained and unsuspecting public does against a person attacking them with a knife.
No Michaels your source bears little weight with me because I find it suspect. Big surprise here. Anytime anyone finds any material that goes against what you say you find it suspect. To equate knife with guns when all relevant empirical evidence says otherwise is just bunk because it does not make sense and because I will always believe scholars Yes don't forget the scholars you believed who told you about global warming and evolution.

by **the whispering eye** » November 12th, 2017, 10:04 am

EYE wonder why the "LOCAL" gun nuts "HERE" didnt carry on and play the tired card about the Texas Gun shooting ????

CHOICES:

1 ) A good guy with a legal gun killed the guy with the illegal gun and prevented more murders?

2 ) he was a atheist ?

3 ) Lets see it didnt match up demographically or politically for you?

4) He liked the "FAKE NEW$ FACTORY" CNN ?

by **Michaels153** » May 29th, 2018, 1:12 pm

by Bernard Goldberg

[quoteCommentators, almost always from the right, have documented liberal media bias for many years now. And the response by the perpetrators of this bias has been both constant and predictable: Circle the wagons and blame the accusers. Accuse us of bias for seeing their bias. See Kurt Schlichter's "Real Conservatives Refuse To Kneel Before Their Liberal Overlords." You see Liberals don't expect Conservatives to fight back. Liberals don't expect Conservatives to point out Liberal failings either.

The bias we've been talking and writing about is usually about partisan politics and hot social issues like abortion. But there's one kind of liberal media bias that hasn't gotten much attention. It's a bias that liberals both in and out of the media often attach to conservatives, but almost never to themselves. It's racial bias. The interesting aspect of the Liberal racial bias is how it extends past overt behavior. Liberals criticize conservatives and accuse them of prejudicial behavior and of being racists. But it is the actions of Liberals regarding their pursuit of gun control, as well as their inactivity regarding African American victims of gun violence that points to diverse and extreme examples of Racist behavior.

My friend Lee Habeeb, a conservative radio executive who appears on cable TV from time to time, has written a piece in Newsweek about how too many journalists have played down -- and often downright ignored -- the murder of young black men in places like Chicago. First question: Why are liberals ignoring the Black Lives Matter movement? If Black lives matter to them, why are they "downplaying - - and often downright ignoring the murder of young black men in places like Chicago?
If these journalists focus on school shootings where the majority of victims are white, then wouldn't it be fair to say that this focus on their part demonstrates that "white victims" are more important than black victims?

"In Chicago, it's Parkland every week," Habeeb writes about a city that had more than 1,400 homicides in 2016 and 2017. And in just the first week of May 2018, 84 people were shot -- nine of them wound up dead.

Journalists, of course, care very much about young black men who are shot -- when the person doing the shooting is a cop. Have you noticed that in these instances the primary focus is on the police officer. If the police officer involved in the shooting is white, every article covering the shooting never fails to point that out. But if the officer involved in the shooting is African American, the fact that the officer is African American, (if it is mentioned at all), is downplayed. This too suggests behavior that is racist. If young black men shooting and killing each other is ignored or not covered in the press, is it because they are young black men?
Or is it even simpler than that? Is it because they are Black? If the reason is because they are black, that might explain why when a African American officer is involved in a shooting it is hardly ever mentioned that the officer is African American.Then, news organizations, even those based a thousand miles away, report the names of the dead -- like Michael Brown who was killed by a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri -- and (rightly) give as much information as possible about their deaths.

"But Americans know none of the thousands of innocent young black men and women killed by other black men in our nation's third largest city -- and across America," writes Habeeb. "There's a reason. A young black male's life is not worth reporting when it is taken by another black male. That's the real racism that prevails in America's newsrooms. The marginalization of black urban life."

Habeeb believes that liberal journalists don't like the storyline. "Journalists and activists can't blame the deaths on assault style weapons like the AR-15.
If Chicago Criminals favorite gunmakers are Smith & Wesson, and a favorite gun is the revolver, then when Liberals concentrate their efforts to ban AR-a5, but ignore the Revolvers used in places like Chicago, are they not giving consent for the availability for revolvers to people in Chicago and other places? And in Chicago or other places where the majority of murders are not by the AR-15, what does the silence of the journalists about these 5 or 6 shot revolvers say when they concentrate on handguns that can hold up to 10 shots?Or the National Rifle Association."

It's true. Black on black murder doesn't fit the liberal journalists' template -- and not only because assault weapons aren't involved. In Chicago, the weapon Brand of choice is the Smith & Wesson, which builds both revolvers and semi-automatic hand guns. One of the favorite revolvers used in Chicago, besides the Saturday Night Specials, are the .38 caliber Smith & Wessonn. These revolvers have a capacity of 5 or 6 shots. *See Liberals journalists don't feel comfortable when it comes to reporting dysfunction in black neighborhoods in places like Chicago. If white kids in tony suburbs were being gunned down in such horrific numbers, you can be sure that the liberal media would more than simply take note. They'd run stories on Page 1 for days on end.

Does that mean that liberals think white lives matter more than black lives? It's not that simple -- not when you introduce paternalism and white liberal guilt into the mix. Simple or not, the inaction on the part of journalists in covering this aspecto of gun violence betrays their bias regardless of their stated or unstated intention.

When it comes to the slaughter of black young men, liberal journalists fear that playing up this kind of bad news could give ammunition to bigots, who might use the information to bolster their already nasty opinions of African-Americans. Then by contrast, when it comes to the slaughter of white young men, liberal journalists don't fear that playing up this kind of bad news could give ammunition to bigots, who might use the information to bolster their already nasty opinions of White people? They don't fear that their reporting on White victims and White shooters will add to the existing negativity against Whites? : White privilege, Reparations, etc....

And since much of the killing is the work of fatherless young men, that's another important story the national media would rather play down, and for the same reason. More dysfunction amounts to more ammo for the bigots.][/quote]

by **Michaels153** » May 31st, 2018, 12:04 pm

by **Michaels153** » May 31st, 2018, 12:22 pm

by **JuicedTruth** » May 31st, 2018, 12:37 pm

You ignorantly combine all sources of gun violence into one bucket. The potential solutions to to decrease inner-city crime, gang violence, school shootings, domestic homicides, etc. are all different.

As Lefty pointed out, people in homes with guns are much more lucky to die from a gunshot than homes without. Someone in my distant family died from an accidental gunshot. Almost all school shootings are committed using legally-acquired guns. This country is gun obsessed and it's deadly.

by **leftyg** » May 31st, 2018, 5:17 pm

The simple fact is we are 25 times as likely to have a gun death as other advanced countries. http://www.politifact.com/california/st ... ot-and-ki/

The differences are staggering and the right's insistence that " the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun "is simply not supported by evidence. It simply results in an escalating arms race.

by **Michaels153** » June 5th, 2018, 1:42 pm

by **Michaels153** » June 5th, 2018, 1:49 pm

by **leftyg** » June 5th, 2018, 5:24 pm

by **Michaels153** » June 5th, 2018, 9:28 pm

by **Michaels153** » July 21st, 2018, 4:06 pm

by **Michaels153** » July 21st, 2018, 4:21 pm

by **Michaels153** » July 21st, 2018, 4:41 pm

NRA sues Seattle over recently passed 'safe storage' gun law
by KOMO Staff - Friday, July 20th 2018

[quoteBELLEVUE, Wash. -- The Second Amendment Foundation and NRA have filed a lawsuit against the City of Seattle over the city's recently passed "safe storage" gun requirement, claiming it violates the state's preemption statute.]

..SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb expressed frustration that Seattle is once again trying to pass its own gun laws.

“Seattle seems to think it should be treated differently than any other local government when it comes to firearm regulation,” Gottlieb said. "We should not have to repeatedly remind Seattle that they are still part of Washington state and must obey the law.”

Joining SAF and the NRA in the lawsuit are two Seattle residents who both own guns.

Seattle's ordinance assesses fines of up to $10,000 against gun owners who do not safely store their firearms or report their misuse. The law would go into effect in January.

Among the changes enacted by the new law:

A gun owner must come to a police station or file a report quickly when a firearm is lost, stolen or used improperly by someone else. Failure to report a gun theft, loss or misuse could result in civil penalties.
Gun owners could be fined up to $500 for failure to store a firearm in a locked container or to render it unusable to anyone but the owner.
The fine would increase to $1,000 if a minor or prohibited person gets their hands on an unsecured weapon.
The fine would increase even more - up to $10,000 - if a minor or prohibited person uses an unsecured firearm to cause injury, death or commit a crime.

But the SAF and NRA suit claims state law prohibits cities, towns and counties or other municipalities from adopting gun regulations that exceed state authority.

"The state legislature has sole authority to adopt gun laws including, but not limited to, registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge and transportation of firearms," the SAF said in a press release announcing the suit.[/quote]

The argument between federal law and federalism has now turn to federal, state, and city, compounding the hierarchy of authority, and as a result, bad laws are sometimes passed that take time to be properly heard in the courts. This is a needless burden placed upon the courts. No city should be able to adopt laws that are contrary to their own state statutes.

by **leftyg** » July 22nd, 2018, 11:47 am

Micheals ended a recent post with the statement by an economist named Lott that:

On this subject a few lines of cogent evidence can overcome a mountain of right wing bullshit.

by **Michaels153** » July 22nd, 2018, 4:27 pm

leftyg,
[/size] The focus of this thread is to discuss gun control ideas. Mr. Lott is not presenting a straw man with the inclusion of this comment at the end of his article.

On any subject, the only bull being thrown is lobbed by you and others from the left.[/quote]

by **leftyg** » July 23rd, 2018, 2:17 pm

by **Michaels153** » July 24th, 2018, 11:40 am

by **leftyg** » July 24th, 2018, 2:49 pm

by **Michaels153** » July 25th, 2018, 9:24 am

by **leftyg** » July 25th, 2018, 1:58 pm

by **Michaels153** » July 25th, 2018, 5:39 pm

by **leftyg** » July 26th, 2018, 5:03 pm

by **Michaels153** » July 27th, 2018, 1:05 am

by **leftyg** » July 27th, 2018, 1:42 pm

by **Michaels153** » July 28th, 2018, 6:31 pm

by **leftyg** » July 28th, 2018, 7:10 pm

by **Michaels153** » July 29th, 2018, 10:38 am

by **leftyg** » July 29th, 2018, 12:27 pm

by **Michaels153** » July 29th, 2018, 3:44 pm

by **leftyg** » July 29th, 2018, 5:50 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 1st, 2018, 12:57 pm

by **leftyg** » August 2nd, 2018, 10:54 am

Michaels, your version of Christianity is disturbing to me. How you can ignore the Sermon on the Mount and then intone the Old Testament crap about "smiting thy enemy" stuns me. And if Jesus, on the day of Armageddon, decide to dawn the garb of a warrior and descend from the skies and smite all the wicked, that is his business. But you cannot join him. You leave your little gun at home so nobody takes it from you and hurts you, and just hide because none of us know for whom the Good Lord is coming.

My version of God has more of a sense of humor than yours I sense. We all have a version of God in our minds; your problem is you confuse your imagining with the real thing, and it is to the detriment of the society in which we all live. I read the Bible and I see the joy of Christ and his love; you read the same book and see a universal gunslinger bent on revenge. You should think about that, but I know you will not. Unfortunately, you take the roll of the expert in our back and forth on this and other issues. The truth is neither of us are.

Also, I would like to hear a comment from you on Mrtazeman's (Real USA) thread on Fascism in America; it is much more a danger than communism or Islamic terrorism. It is the evil that will sneak up on us; it is the wolf in sheep's clothing.

by **Michaels153** » August 2nd, 2018, 1:36 pm

by **leftyg** » August 2nd, 2018, 2:07 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 3rd, 2018, 7:44 am

by **leftyg** » August 3rd, 2018, 12:08 pm

by **leftyg** » August 3rd, 2018, 12:59 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 4th, 2018, 3:36 pm

by **leftyg** » August 4th, 2018, 5:22 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 5th, 2018, 10:47 am

by **leftyg** » August 5th, 2018, 1:03 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 5th, 2018, 1:04 pm

I guess I was wrong; you do understand. And you like the parts of the Bible that are hateful over the parts that show God's love.
You were wrong and there was no guessing about it. And where do you get off concluding that 1) Parts of the Bible are hateful, and 2) That I like parts of the Bible that you call hateful over the parts that show God's love? The reason that I provided the scriptures that I posted was in response to your ignorance of God and the Bible, and because, as I demonstrated in my thread: "The true Biblical Response to illegal immigration and dreamers" you use religion as more of a strategy to weaponize religion so as to manipulate people of a certain faith to agree to a certain position?.

You are confronted with a kind Jesus, and you say, there is another side. OK. It is obvious that you seem to prefer hate to Christian love.
It is obvious to who that I prefer hate to Christian love? Is that what you really believe, or what you want to believe. I was not always a Christian. I became a Christian after reading the Bible for myself and believing in it. I was attracted to the following of Jesus Christ because of His love and His mercy.
To guys like you and Bob Frantz, kindness is weakness.
I do not know what Bob Frantz thinks about kindness. I do not think kindness is a weakness

I know there were spots in the Old Testament where the Israelites smote this one and that one. Then how come you missed the meaning behind what Jesus said about the Peacemakers?Remember, Michaels I was raised on that stuff. You were raised "on that stuff." How did that help you?Any day I expected a stern and wrathful Jehovah to send one of his agents down from heaven to send my ass straight to hell. I grew up in fear of people a lot more scary than you. I read the Bible, and did what I could, but I was scared of the Great Day of God the Almighty and pretty sure that, despite my best efforts, my family and I were screwed.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Psalm 111 verse 10
John 3:16, 17: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

That is why when I meant priests at a Catholic college I attended and heard the message of love they shared in classes like Sacred Script it appealed to me

And remember that in the Old Testament Elisha sent a bear to murder 42 children who were taunting him (2 Kings 2:23-25) I can tell you where I was at that day 5 7 or so years ago. I was staring at a book shelf in my house when our congregation servant was conducting a Bible study at our home. I just now went back and located the verse, but for 57 years I have thought that Elisha was an ass hole.

And lets not forget Lot who got drunk and screwed his own daughters Genesis 19:33

Now I could go on, but when I hear some vicious act like Elisha's hit on 42 children, it makes me want to ask if 42 children were gunned down by a shooter defending a Christian preacher would you justify it?
Lets not forget Job chapters 38, 39, 40, and 41.

You see it seems to me that you can justify anything with some biblical verse. Nobody can justify anything with some biblical verse. I don't try. But you do.And nothing, you can ever concoct will make me believe that it is OK to murder children.I have never tried to concoct any justification for the murder of children. I am the one who has consistently said that Abortion is wrong, that there is no justification for Abortion, and that Abortion should be abolished. You have not

You begin and I will end with this silliness that God does not change. Why should you believe that? Why should you find that God does not change to be silly? How can you say that? I was not the one who originated that scripture. That came from Malachi chapter 3 verse 6. The theological understanding that God does not change allows for people to trust Him and to count on His Word. If God was not constant we could not be confident in His message of Salvation. Did s/he authorize the murder of those children? This very question demonstrates your lack of knowledge and understanding of God. Have you lost the ability to read and comprehend as well? Go back and read the scriptures that I posted.But that aside, saying God does not change is limiting his or her power.
[/size][/quote] To acknowledge that God does not change is not equivalent to suggesting or limiting Him of the ability to do something. When you begin with the understanding that God is all powerful, then your position is that He can do anythig just as He said in Genesis 18:14 "Is anything too hard for the Lord?" So then if it is accepted and understood that there are no limits as to what God can do we then look at the actions that have been revealed to us in the Bible, and we find examples of God choosing to do some things but not others. We see The Lord Jesus healing two blind men in Matthew chapter 9 verses 27-30, But when the disciple Paul pleaded with the The Lord to remove the thorn in his flesh, God would not remove the thorn but instead told Paul: "My Grace is sufficient for you." It was not that God could not heal Paul, it was that God chose not to. In Luke chapter 4 we read of Jesus being tempted of the devil in the wilderness for forty days and in those days He ate nothing. Luke 4:2. In John chapter 6 Jesus feeds the five thousand. In Mark chapter 11 Jesus was hungry and finds a fig tree. When he found nothing but leaves on it; Mark 11:13, Jesus said: "Let no one eat fruit from you ever again." (Mark 11:14) Now Jesus as God, goes for forty days in the desert without eating. He performs the miracle of feeding the five thousand, but when He found no figs on the fig tree, He cursed it Mark 11:21 instead of just creating food for himself. What we see from this and other examples is that God is limitless in His power, but He Himself limits what He does with His own power and He uses His own power to carry out His will.

by **Michaels153** » August 5th, 2018, 1:14 pm

Leftyg,
You are correct about the snopes count. I went back and read the explanation again. I did not understand the 57 counties comment before, now I do. Thank you for clearing that up.

by **Michaels153** » August 6th, 2018, 12:14 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 6th, 2018, 1:17 pm

by **leftyg** » August 8th, 2018, 12:27 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 8th, 2018, 4:53 pm

by **leftyg** » August 8th, 2018, 5:40 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 10th, 2018, 4:58 pm

by **leftyg** » August 11th, 2018, 1:18 am

The problem with South Africa is intense poverty of a kind we cannot even fathom. They have the highest income inequality of any country on the planet https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indica ... I/rankings Chances are these murdered white farmers are merely expressions of that. If you notice, South Africa also has a much higher murder rate that we have 34.27 to 4.88 https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/mur ... untry.html

Anyone who denies that great income inequality is behind the deaths of these farmers and others is just kidding themselves. It is not the only factor, but it is a major player. Notice the low gini index countries, nations with the least income inequality have virtually no murders. Look at the two lists before you comment back to me. I will tell you this: compared to poverty and hopelessness, actually having a gun is a relatively small driver of violence. But unless you just look at the lists first and notice the same countries at the top, you are being dishonest with yourself. It is not black racism that is driving these killings; it is hopeless and grinding poverty.

by **Michaels153** » August 11th, 2018, 9:48 am

by **leftyg** » August 11th, 2018, 1:56 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 15th, 2018, 1:58 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 17th, 2018, 11:57 am

by **leftyg** » August 17th, 2018, 1:47 pm

Michaels you do realize that you have offered a perfect argument against guns. I mean if a person who is an advocate for gun control kills somebody, what hope is there for a right wing gunslinger who wants to kill a brigand standing his ground, a thug like George Zimmerman.

by **Michaels153** » August 18th, 2018, 3:32 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 18th, 2018, 5:17 pm

by **leftyg** » August 19th, 2018, 2:33 am

If only the first amendment had half the cache with conservatives the second amendment had.

And I still do not understand how a person who claims to be a Christian loves guns so damn much.

by **NewtonLan** » August 20th, 2018, 8:10 am

To be fair, loving guns and being a Christian isn't mutually exclusive. You can have a gun and not violate any of the commandments. But I can see your point to a degree.

by **Michaels153** » August 20th, 2018, 10:17 am

Welcome to the discussion NewtonLan. Your very diplomatic. Your point is correct. Leftyg never thought that the two do not need to be mutually exclusive. My posts here support the theme of this thread.
I do not love my weapons. As far as inanimate material objects are concerned, it would be more accurate to say that I love my television (if you had to use the word love in the description). I certainly get more use out of my television, and it does not require anywhere near the maintenance of my weapons.

by **JuicedTruth** » August 20th, 2018, 10:51 am

I took CCW classes a few years ago. Even though the instructors try and teach responsible ownership, the number of people in my class who were almost hoping for someone to break into their house so they could shoot them was disturbing. I don't know what the makeup is, as I certainly know plenty of people who are more concerned with their lives than shooting people, but there seems to be a segment of gun nuts who REALLY want to shoot someone.

by **leftyg** » August 20th, 2018, 11:01 am

by **Michaels153** » August 20th, 2018, 12:30 pm

by **leftyg** » August 25th, 2018, 4:48 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 26th, 2018, 5:20 pm

by **leftyg** » August 26th, 2018, 7:01 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 27th, 2018, 11:51 am

by **Michaels153** » August 27th, 2018, 12:25 pm

by **leftyg** » August 27th, 2018, 1:41 pm

by **leftyg** » August 27th, 2018, 2:02 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 28th, 2018, 6:58 am

by **Michaels153** » August 28th, 2018, 7:56 am

by **leftyg** » August 28th, 2018, 10:03 am

by **Michaels153** » August 29th, 2018, 7:44 am

by **Michaels153** » August 29th, 2018, 9:03 am

by **leftyg** » August 29th, 2018, 10:30 am

Let me get this straight: banks have to lend to gun manufacturers, but bakers do not have to bake cakes for gay couples. That is why I am not a conservative. I thank God everyday for the cognitive skills to avoid that form of stupidity.

by **Michaels153** » August 29th, 2018, 11:38 am

by **leftyg** » August 29th, 2018, 12:18 pm

by **Michaels153** » September 1st, 2018, 3:10 pm

by **leftyg** » September 2nd, 2018, 12:31 pm

by **Michaels153** » September 2nd, 2018, 5:32 pm

by **leftyg** » September 2nd, 2018, 10:11 pm

The simple fact that I knew that the United States was not home to a third of the mass shootings to begin with says a lot. The information is out there for anyone to find. It is not rocket science. You like Wikipedia. Here is what they say about gun deaths;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... death_rate

The only thing is that you have to define your terms about what is a mass shooting, about how many people have to die or be hurt. Unless there is an operational definition this all seems pretty fuzzy. I went back to the article and found the definition of a mass murderer as being one who kills four or more people. I also saw that it was from 171 countries and that the Philippines was second with 18 as compared to our 46. According to the Wikipedia article the Phillipines was 38th in homicides Perhaps all the countries with high homicide rates were merely excluded from the study which makes the study weak and dishonest.

You and I both know and have known that the problem the United States has is against our friends. We are at the top of that heap and that is what matters most. Conservatives hate to admit the link between poverty and crime and homicide in particular.

Here is a list of School shootings by country since 2009:
United States 288
Mexico 8
South Africa 6
India 5
Canada 2
France 2
Russia 1
Germany 1
Greece 1
China 1
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/schoo ... -vs-world/
Now this may be a bit afield of the conversation. But I think some stuff got fouled up here. I know that there are third world countries whose murder rate is far worse than ours, but I also know that no comparable country in the world is even close to us in our murder rate. I think some wires have gotten crossed.

by **Michaels153** » September 5th, 2018, 8:41 am

by **Michaels153** » September 5th, 2018, 9:57 am

by **Michaels153** » September 12th, 2018, 11:45 am

by **Michaels153** » September 14th, 2018, 11:33 am

by **Michaels153** » September 17th, 2018, 12:04 pm

by **Michaels153** » October 11th, 2018, 9:30 am

by **Michaels153** » October 16th, 2018, 9:43 am

Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch has filed a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit seeking records regarding the attempts by the Obama administration to ban ammo.
If you watch the video, or read the transcripts, you will find that Judicial watch has been given the runaround and delayed with efforts thus far to obtain this information. Mr. Fitton has been told by both parties that Obama was informed by members of both parties in congress that he could not ban the ammo in the way that he had tried, -> by redefining the ammo to place it basically off limits for most civilians.

by **Michaels153** » November 1st, 2018, 5:03 pm

by **leftyg** » December 15th, 2018, 4:26 pm

by **Michaels153** » December 19th, 2018, 7:51 pm

by **leftyg** » December 19th, 2018, 9:18 pm

by **Michaels153** » December 20th, 2018, 11:42 am

by **leftyg** » December 20th, 2018, 12:37 pm

by **Michaels153** » December 21st, 2018, 12:28 am

by **leftyg** » December 21st, 2018, 7:19 pm

by **Michaels153** » December 25th, 2018, 1:39 pm

by **leftyg** » December 25th, 2018, 2:17 pm

by **Michaels153** » December 25th, 2018, 2:29 pm

[url] [https://www.robertniles.com/stats/percap.shtml/url]
Robert Niles
Per Capita, Rates and Comparisons

[quote] To find out if one city (or one country)really is more dangerous than another, you need to determine a per capita murder rate. That is, the number of murders for each person in town. (That's what "per capita" means. It's Latin for "for each head.")

To find that rate, simply divide the number of murders by the total population of the city. To keep from using a tiny little decimal, statisticians usually multiply the result by 100,000 and give the result as the number of murders per 100,000 people.

In Springfield's case, 50 murders divided by 800,000 people equals a murder rate of 6.25 per 100,000 people. Capital City's 50 murders divided by 600,000 people equals a murder rate of 8.33 per 100,000 people......

[Read the rest of Robert's statistics lessons for people who don't know math./quote] Your welcome.

by **leftyg** » December 25th, 2018, 2:45 pm

by **leftyg** » December 26th, 2018, 1:14 pm

by **Michaels153** » December 28th, 2018, 7:00 am

by **leftyg** » December 28th, 2018, 12:49 pm

by **Michaels153** » December 28th, 2018, 9:59 pm

What country could come over here with their police force, within our laws and do a better job as in lowering our murder rate? Because that is what you are saying. That is your bottom line.

by **leftyg** » December 29th, 2018, 12:25 am

by **Michaels153** » February 27th, 2019, 12:05 pm

by **Michaels153** » February 27th, 2019, 12:32 pm

by **Michaels153** » March 14th, 2019, 9:44 am

by **Michaels153** » March 17th, 2019, 4:00 pm

by **Michaels153** » March 19th, 2019, 8:07 am

by **Michaels153** » March 20th, 2019, 4:22 pm

by **Michaels153** » March 20th, 2019, 5:18 pm

"In January, 23 attorneys general joined their signatures to an amicus brief in support Rogers v. Grewal--A National Rifle Association-backed Supreme Court case challenging New Jersey's unconstitutional requirements for obtaining a handgun carry permit. That effort was led by Arizona Attorney General Mark Brnovich.
"Law abiding citizens should not be required to prove they are in peril to receive the government's permission to exercise a constitutionally protected right," Said Chris W. Cox, executive director of NRA's Institute for Legislative Action. "Twenty-three of America's highest-ranking law enforcement officers have come together to support the constitutional right to self-defense because they understand that restricting the rights of law-abiding gun owners puts the good guys at risk and fails to impede criminal behavior."
The law at issue requires New Jersey residents to show a "justifiable need" or "good reason" when applying for a firearm permit. The overly restrictive and time-consuming process has resulted in the deaths of innocent people, most notably in the tragic murder of Carol Browne.
Thirty-nine-year-old Carol Browne of Berlin, New Jersey, was being stalked and threatened by an ex-boyfriend. Browne applied for a firearm permit 43 days before her death. The permit was never issued, and Browne was murdered by the same ex-boyfriend in her own driveway.
Currently, Rogers v. Grewal is awaiting consideration from the Supreme Court.

by **Michaels153** » March 20th, 2019, 5:32 pm

by **Michaels153** » March 21st, 2019, 9:52 am

by **Mrtazeman** » March 26th, 2019, 9:23 am

As a true Christian, I would rather protect God's children than the profits of the gun manufacturers...

by **leftyg** » March 26th, 2019, 11:33 am

by **Michaels153** » March 26th, 2019, 3:10 pm

by **Michaels153** » March 30th, 2019, 2:17 pm

by **Michaels153** » April 1st, 2019, 8:00 am

by **Michaels153** » April 2nd, 2019, 7:24 am

by **leftyg** » April 3rd, 2019, 4:39 pm

Micheals would you please give me something that supports your contention that the research on controlling certain kinds of guns has crumbled. I would appreciate something along the line of actual research on the subject. You are putting all these arguments about legal status and enforcement. What evidence suggests that giving carte blanche to gun ownership ix a good idea?

BTW, I think New Zealand did the right thing even though the right does not get it

by **Michaels153** » April 4th, 2019, 9:04 am

by **Michaels153** » April 4th, 2019, 11:34 pm

by **Michaels153** » April 10th, 2019, 9:42 am

by **Michaels153** » April 11th, 2019, 9:55 am

by **Mrtazeman** » May 8th, 2019, 7:10 am

Another school shooting and Michael's would rather protect the profits of wealthy gun manufacturers than protecting our children with common sense gun laws.. I know, Our thought and prayers are with the victims, now let's talk about tax cuts..

by **Michaels153** » May 13th, 2019, 12:28 pm

by **Michaels153** » May 15th, 2019, 10:14 am

by **Michaels153** » May 21st, 2019, 9:52 am

by **Mrtazeman** » May 21st, 2019, 12:21 pm

by **Michaels153** » May 21st, 2019, 5:59 pm

by **Mrtazeman** » May 23rd, 2019, 6:30 am

Let's be realistic. There are no studies or actually events that a teacher with a gun stopping another person with a gun. Second, these teachers will need better training than cops. Also, schools could barely afford paper and pencils and now you will be putting in gun/bullets and very expensive training in the budget. And if there is an active shooter that teacher better make sure he/she doesnot kill an innocent child. Republicans are asking allot from our educators and to boot they want to reduce their pay.. It might help but it's a bandaid at best.

by **Michaels153** » May 26th, 2019, 1:03 pm

by **Michaels153** » June 4th, 2019, 7:50 pm

by **Michaels153** » June 21st, 2019, 8:10 am

by **Mrtazeman** » June 26th, 2019, 4:58 pm

This is what happens when you are going up against the Gun Nuts...

https://nypost.com/2019/06/25/david-hog ... -attempts/

by **Michaels153** » June 27th, 2019, 10:03 pm

by **Mrtazeman** » June 29th, 2019, 6:59 am

I don't have problems with corporations making profits. There are regulations created for every corporation to keep the public safe. Even Trump put regulations on the gun industry by limiting bump stock. Doesn't mean they won't make profits

Hogg saw his classmates get shoot down, him wanting common sense regulation has caused the right wing in attacking him and he this kid is still fighting..

by **Michaels153** » July 1st, 2019, 10:28 am

by **Mrtazeman** » July 1st, 2019, 8:07 pm

by **Mrtazeman** » July 1st, 2019, 8:22 pm

David helped organize the March For Our Lives rally that attracted nearly 800,000 people pushing for sensible gun reform.

Looks like more people are for sensible gun control than not

by **Michaels153** » July 1st, 2019, 11:37 pm

by **Michaels153** » July 1st, 2019, 11:53 pm

by **Mrtazeman** » July 2nd, 2019, 4:02 am

Most Gun Owners Support Stricter Laws — Even NRA Members

https://time.com/5197807/stricter-gun-laws-nra/

Ingrahams own brother calls her a monster while advertisers are dropping her for her hate fill show..

You have a double standard, calling Obama a phony Christian, has he ever gotten a divorce or cheated on his wife with porn stars??

by **Michaels153** » July 2nd, 2019, 8:27 am

by **Michaels153** » July 9th, 2019, 8:11 am

by **Mrtazeman** » August 4th, 2019, 8:59 pm

2 more mass shootings. One was motivated by right wing media. More killings... I think Americans are getting sick and tired of your thought and prayers..

by **Michaels153** » August 5th, 2019, 7:13 am

by **Mrtazeman** » August 5th, 2019, 7:21 am

Why don't you explain to the dead victims family that higher profits for weapon manufactures is more important than their dead love ones.

It doesn't matter to you because it wasnt one of Your family members with a bullet between their eyes...

by **Michaels153** » August 5th, 2019, 9:03 am

by **Mrtazeman** » August 5th, 2019, 9:30 am

by **Michaels153** » August 5th, 2019, 1:18 pm

by **Mrtazeman** » August 5th, 2019, 4:09 pm

This must break your heart...

After back to back shootings, Trump called for red flag laws. Here's what they are.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/back-back-sh ... 58512.html

by **Mrtazeman** » August 5th, 2019, 4:14 pm

Then the repub should be transparent...

If republicans real feel such as you do, that Common Sense Laws won't stop mass killings, then the republicans should tell those families who's loved ones were slaughtered and all Americans for that matter, that all they offer is their prayers and thoughts and too bad so sad that there family members were just collateral damage bc nothing won't change...

by **Mrtazeman** » August 6th, 2019, 10:49 am

And this happens a few hours after the mass shooting...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/amy-mcgrath- ... 36203.html

Stay classy Mitch

by **Mrtazeman** » August 7th, 2019, 5:22 pm

President Trump is looking into creating Federal Background checks. This must make the right wing gun nuts confused and crazy

by **Michaels153** » August 7th, 2019, 10:11 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 7th, 2019, 10:27 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 7th, 2019, 10:40 pm

by **Mrtazeman** » August 8th, 2019, 6:14 am

We don't have Federal background checks and the majority of owners do want stricter gun control. So you are against Trump?

If Republicans real feel that there is nothing they can do about these mass killings then the next time a child is returned to their parents in a body bag riddled with bullets, then Republicans should tell them sorry about your luck but this is the way it is...

As more classy, republicans get paid big time from the NRA, that is why Mitch and Ron even refuse to discus these issues

by **Michaels153** » August 8th, 2019, 9:20 am

by **Mrtazeman** » August 8th, 2019, 4:03 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 9th, 2019, 7:45 am

by **Michaels153** » August 9th, 2019, 8:16 am

We have been informed that the definition of a mass shooting is the killing of four or more persons by a gun. I offer this article to contrast the approach of liberals where the consequence of four people were also kiled by a different weapon, and there is not the same response by them as they have towards a "mass shooting."

Four people killed by one person, all killed by stabbing the victims with a knife. So where are the Liberals? Where is Bernie Sanders who after acknowledging that 99.9% of gun owners would never commit a mass shooting; still advocated for the very same people to make more concessions.
What concessions are being asked for knife owners? Where are the background checks for people wanting to purchase knives? Where are the licenses for people to buy knives. Where are the licenses for people to carry knives? Where are the state or national registers for those selling knives. Where are the state or national registers for those buying knives? When will someone introduce a red flag law for knives?
Are any of my questions 'unreasonable".

by **Mrtazeman** » August 9th, 2019, 12:33 pm

Well, I knife can't kill as many people as an assult weapon. This is why Trump put a ban on Bump Stock..

Look, if the republicans don't think common sense gun legislation won't work, next time there is a shooting they should tell those families who's loved ones comes back in body bag for simple going to a mall, that this is the New America and there is nothing they can do about it..

Don't freaking act like you have compassion when you don't

by **Michaels153** » August 9th, 2019, 9:51 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 14th, 2019, 10:04 pm

by **Mrtazeman** » August 15th, 2019, 8:52 pm

Pretty sad that it's easier to buy a gun than a pack of cigarettes..

by **Mrtazeman** » August 15th, 2019, 8:56 pm

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/09/74977385 ... und-checks

Are you against Trump? He supports background checks

by **Michaels153** » August 15th, 2019, 11:42 pm

by **Michaels153** » August 16th, 2019, 12:24 am

by **Michaels153** » August 19th, 2019, 7:35 pm

by **Mrtazeman** » September 1st, 2019, 9:50 am

Another mass shooting. Our prayers and thoughts are with you.. Now let's talk about huge tax cuts for the wealthy,, right repubs

It's not real a big secret, everyone knows that politicians don't care about these shooting bc the gun lobbiest and the NRA provide big time $$$ to the republican party...

Https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/shooti ... 019-09-01/

by **Mrtazeman** » September 4th, 2019, 4:13 pm

by **Michaels153** » September 13th, 2019, 2:17 am

by **Michaels153** » October 2nd, 2019, 8:12 am

by **Michaels153** » November 14th, 2019, 9:23 am

by **Michaels153** » January 19th, 2020, 2:16 pm

by **Michaels153** » January 21st, 2020, 9:07 am

by **Michaels153** » May 1st, 2020, 12:25 pm

By Amy Swearer
May 1, 2020

A welcomed tool to meet the false allegations of the left. This is an informative article of a new development, complete with a summary of the DGU, and includes a couple of anecdotal evidence illustrating the positive use of gun ownership.