Health care will be overwhelmed

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Health care will be overwhelmed

Postby Scorpion » October 12th, 2017, 7:13 am

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Re: Health care will be overwhelmed

Postby JuicedTruth » October 12th, 2017, 1:15 pm

It's a good thing health care is in such a good place in the U.S.

Also awesome how much backlash Michele Obama got for trying to make school lunches healthier. How dare she?
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Re: Health care will be overwhelmed

Postby Scorpion » October 13th, 2017, 9:58 am

JuicedTruth wrote:It's a good thing health care is in such a good place in the U.S.

Also awesome how much backlash Michele Obama got for trying to make school lunches healthier. How dare she?

So Michelle was supposed to control what kids eat? Idiot.
Parents need to encourage healthy food choices and exercise.
My point, since you like to deflect, is that younger people, who SHOULDNT be having health issues associated with middle age will be seeking medical assistance at a higher rate for weight related illnesses.
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Re: Health care will be overwhelmed

Postby leftyg » October 13th, 2017, 11:25 pm

Scorp, smoking is a bigger health risk than obesity, and the rate of smoking is going down. Now the obesity rate is 50% higher than the smoking rate, but even with that smoking kills over 3.5 many people as being very fat (400,000 to 112,000). Yet there is a persistent belief that obesity is worse. According to an article on the death of actor James Gandolfini people believe like you do and many others on here when this was a more vital site about four or five years ago. The article says:
Which is a more serious problem for America, smoking or overeating? According to a Gallup poll released this week, 67 percent of the nation's adults think of cigarettes as an "extremely serious" or "very serious" social problem, compared with 81 percent who say the same for obesity. Gallup first started asking this question in 2003, and now, for the first time, respondents have shown that they're more worried about jiggly thighs than blackened lungs.
and goes on to say that the media pushes obesity as a health risk as they did in articles about Gandolfini's death. I remember they said the same thing when Tim Russert died in 2008. His weight and eating habits were scrutinized while nobody asked if Russert smoked either.

But the article also says:
The shift in public opinion suggests a dangerous and unintended consequence of the war on obesity. Years of epidemiological work have shown that smoking is far worse for your health than being fat. So much worse, in fact, that any suggestion to the contrary should be taken as a sign that our priorities are getting all mixed up.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fat_.html

The point is that obesiy is a health risk, and it is on the rise. But smoking, even with its large decline, still kills many more Americans than obesity. And as smoking goes down, longevity should spike a little, not go down even if we are a little fatter. So don't worry so much.
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Re: Health care will be overwhelmed

Postby Scorpion » October 16th, 2017, 8:59 am

Lefty, my post was t about increased risk of death.
It was about increased use of health care services for many health issues related to obesity and the increased costs associated with the need for additional access to treat these diseases
Once you are dead, there is no need for access. :roll:
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Re: Health care will be overwhelmed

Postby leftyg » October 16th, 2017, 10:51 am

Lefty, my post was t about increased risk of death.
It was about increased use of health care services for many health issues related to obesity and the increased costs associated with the need for additional access to treat these diseases
Once you are dead, there is no need for access. :roll:
My argument was that smoking is a far bigger affliction. I think I gave sources to back it up. Therefore, the two costs might intersect, and health care costs might actually go down :roll: right back atch ya.
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Re: Health care will be overwhelmed

Postby Scorpion » October 16th, 2017, 11:41 am

https://www.onhealth.com/content/1/health_risks_associated_with_obesity

Lefty, all the health care risks in this link do not necessarily cause death immediately.
It compounds over time.
A disproportionate number of people who are obese and overweight are bound to overwhelm the system to address these associated illnesses.
More fat people at a younger age means more need to seek medical attention.

On a side note, the hubby has been having some nasty leg cramps at night.
He takes a statin for a "just over normal" cholesterol count.
He's tried magnesium and it decreased slightly.
I told him to stop taking both for a week and see what happens.
Well, they'll know, he says.
And if you stop taking it and your legs stop cramping and waking you up, you will know it's the drug.
If it stops, he can ask for something else or decline to take it since his count isn't outrageous.
Sounds like it's more prophylactic.
Now, what irritates me is that the doctor dismissed his symptom because he's on the lowest dose available.
So what, it's still a drug.

I also told him if he changed his diet, and lost weight, his cholesterol would likely decrease.
I'm now 80% Paleo and lost 10 pounds the first month.

People lack discipline and it's "easier" to see a doctor and take a magic pill. :roll:
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Re: Health care will be overwhelmed

Postby leftyg » October 16th, 2017, 11:59 am

Scorp, I never said obesity was not a health risk. But smoking is far worse. This article talks about the health risks:
Fat is correlated with ill health, of course, and the one-third of the U.S. population who qualify as obese may be subject to some very real and severe consequences. An obese person is up to twice as likely to die of any given cause than someone whose body mass index is in the normal range, controlling for other factors. In medical terms, we would say that his or her relative risk of all-cause mortality is between 1 and 2. What about smoking?
The analogous number for those who consume at least one pack of cigarettes per day is 3.7
, meaning that heavy smokers are almost four times more likely to perish than nonsmokers, about double the risk associated with obesity. Estimates of avoidable deaths reflect this difference in the odds: According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, smoking accounts for an excess mortality of more than 400,000 Americans every year, compared to just 112,000 for obesity. That's despite the fact that there are many more fat Americans—obesity rates are now 50 percent higher than smoking rates.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _fat_.html

Smoking rates are going down dramatically.

As to your hubby, I take statins for normal cholesterol. Doctors prescribe it, and quite frankly it makes my bones ache. I have noticed that recently. I do not feel as stiff or as achy because my prescription was held up a week ago because it ran out and my doctor just now got back to the pharmacy. There is an awful lot we don't know.
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Re: Health care will be overwhelmed

Postby hmmmmm » October 16th, 2017, 12:23 pm

The worst form of inequality, is to try to make unequal things equal ~~~~~ Aristotle

You can't cure poverty by creating more dependency ~~~~~

"Science flies you to the moon. Radical Islamists fly you in to buildings."
~~~~~ hmmmmm
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Re: Health care will be overwhelmed

Postby leftyg » October 16th, 2017, 10:22 pm

Interesting hmmmmm. I found this article that says being overweight is actually healthier than being at normal weight or below http://healthland.time.com/2013/01/02/b ... mortality/

No one argues that obesity is not a huge health risk. But how obese. I suppose a 500 pound person is probably at significant risk of early death and a person who smokes a couple cigarettes a day is probably much better than a pack a day smoker. But a 200 pound person might actually be healthier than a 160 pound person. I am picking a male about 5'9" or 5'10" Now, on average, I am guessing that a non smoker is not at as much risk as a person who smokes a couple cigarettes a day.

Also, I read your article (I remember when you set me straight on the notion that Europeans smoke more than Americans). Part of what your article said is that smoking is less prevalent than ever and that has caused it to be less lethal than our obesity epidemic, but that is like saying that because nobody drinks gasoline that drinking gasoline is less lethal than either smoking or obesity. I would be willing to bet that if drinking gasoline were suddenly fashionable that it would kill far more people than either obesity or smoking. I am thinking of one person who smokes and another who is quite obese. Both depend on degree. If you smoke two or three packs of cigarettes a day you are not long for this world and the same if you weigh 400 or 500 pounds.

One example from sports might help explain. Triples are better than doubles in baseball. BUT because so few triples are hit, doubles are actually more important if that makes any sense. Anyway, thanks for the article.
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Re: Health care will be overwhelmed

Postby hmmmmm » October 18th, 2017, 12:12 pm

leftyg wrote:Interesting hmmmmm. I found this article that says being overweight is actually healthier than being at normal weight or below http://healthland.time.com/2013/01/02/b ... mortality/

No one argues that obesity is not a huge health risk. But how obese. I suppose a 500 pound person is probably at significant risk of early death and a person who smokes a couple cigarettes a day is probably much better than a pack a day smoker. But a 200 pound person might actually be healthier than a 160 pound person. I am picking a male about 5'9" or 5'10" Now, on average, I am guessing that a non smoker is not at as much risk as a person who smokes a couple cigarettes a day.

Also, I read your article (I remember when you set me straight on the notion that Europeans smoke more than Americans). Part of what your article said is that smoking is less prevalent than ever and that has caused it to be less lethal than our obesity epidemic, but that is like saying that because nobody drinks gasoline that drinking gasoline is less lethal than either smoking or obesity. I would be willing to bet that if drinking gasoline were suddenly fashionable that it would kill far more people than either obesity or smoking. I am thinking of one person who smokes and another who is quite obese. Both depend on degree. If you smoke two or three packs of cigarettes a day you are not long for this world and the same if you weigh 400 or 500 pounds.

One example from sports might help explain. Triples are better than doubles in baseball. BUT because so few triples are hit, doubles are actually more important if that makes any sense. Anyway, thanks for the article.

I think that when they are saying "less lethal", they really do just mean that less people smoking means less people dying from smoking.
Obese is considered anyone with a BMI over 30 or higher. Your 5'9" man becomes obese at 203 pounds.
The point they are making is that there are so many complications associated with obesity. Most people aren't dying from being overweight....they are dying from effects of obesity. (diabetes, HBP, heart disease, high cholesterol.....etc). Since there are more obese people than there are smokers then logically more people are dying right now from obesity than smoking.
The worst form of inequality, is to try to make unequal things equal ~~~~~ Aristotle

You can't cure poverty by creating more dependency ~~~~~

"Science flies you to the moon. Radical Islamists fly you in to buildings."
~~~~~ hmmmmm
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Re: Health care will be overwhelmed

Postby Michaels153 » December 2nd, 2019, 7:33 am

Goody bye.
The Liberal Creed: Take all the money you can, from all the people you can, in all the ways that you can, for as long as you can.
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