A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

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A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 5th, 2018, 5:48 pm

https://townhall.com/columnists/sheriffdavidclarke(ret)/2018/11/02/equal-opportunity-racism-n2534171
Equal Opportunity Racism
Sheriff David Clarke (Ret.) Sheriff David Clarke (Ret.) |Posted: Nov 02, 2018
Edited quotes:"Notable Democrat Party leaders and high profile liberal media pundits continue ...making insidious comments and statements about black and white people."
... Joe Biden commented about the prospect of newcomer Barack Obama as a candidate for the Democrat nomination for president in 2008.,
... Hillary Clinton’s-“I know, they all look alike.”,
... Hiliary Clinton went to a black church in Charleston, South Carolina, stood in the pulpit and did her best at imitating her fake black southern dialect in delivering her speech. “I don’t feel no ways tired,” she said in a long southern drawl. It was not only embarrassing, it was humiliating for her but she didn’t know it.
...There was the time after the killing of Trayvon Martin in a stand your ground incident in Florida that Obama said, “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.” How embarrassing. He re-enforced the stereotype uttered by Hillary Clinton that all blacks look alike. How does Obama know what his son would look like if he had one?
...CNN host Don Lemon called white men, “the biggest terror threat in America.” There is no way to couch that as taken out of context, wisecracking, hyperbole or metaphorically speaking. It is a raw, unadulterated, unmitigated, racist statement.
...Don Lemon has no data to back up his racist rant about white males and terror. He’ll face no sanctions from his employer at CNN or from the editorial boards at The New York Times, Washington Post or Huffington Post. Why is this? Because CNN and their ilk gives him license to make these racist statement.

..."The left knows that to control the language is to control the narrative. They say what they want while twisting and contorting what conservatives say,
..."Black racists will continue to behave in a racist fashion with impunity until white folks fight back. Being black myself, I am more effective at calling out liberal white racism. White men are going to have to stand up and fight back against liberal black racism. And when conservatists do fight back, the Liberal Democrats will claim that whatever they say is proof that they are racists. Here you are liberals, quote Shakespeare's " Me thinks thou dost protest to much."

https://townhall.com/columnists/karenkataline/2018/11/05/walking-away-from-cognitive-dissonance-n2534990
Walking Away from Cognitive Dissonance
By Karen Kataline |Posted: Nov 05, 2018

The woman who claimed to write an anonymous letter accusing Justice Brett Kavanaugh of raping her in his car has admitted that she lied. Judy Munro-Leighton turned out to be a left-wing activist who admitted that she did it because she was angry. She has never met Justice Kavanaugh.

The left regularly incites their base to keep them in a state of such turmoil that they never stop to ask themselves if the contradictory ideas they’re being spoon-fed make any sense.......Why are Democrats so good at tolerating cognitive dissonance? It helps to have an extremely short attention-span ...
Apparently, they can handle cognitive dissonance when it is self-generated, but not when it comes from someone who informs them of something that doesn’t fit their twistedly dissonant narrative.

How do you point out hypocrisy to those who don’t mind being hypocritical?
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Mrtazeman » November 6th, 2018, 9:23 am

Nobody took this anonymous letter seriously and it wasn't the reason Sexual assaulter Kavanaugh was being questioned. Besides It is Kind of confusing, she lied about writing the letter but the real author who wrote the anonymous letter is still not identified.

The only thing you have proven is that there should have been a thoroughly FBI investigation.
Last edited by Mrtazeman on November 6th, 2018, 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby JuicedTruth » November 6th, 2018, 9:31 am

Don't forget about the Trump supporter who tried to pay a bunch of women to accuse Mueller or sexual misconduct.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Mrtazeman » November 7th, 2018, 9:32 am

Now that the Dems won the house, the republicans better lawyer up..
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby leftyg » November 7th, 2018, 11:49 am

Michaels said:
...CNN host Don Lemon called white men, “the biggest terror threat in America.” There is no way to couch that as taken out of context, wisecracking, hyperbole or metaphorically speaking. It is a raw, unadulterated, unmitigated, racist statement.
...Don Lemon has no data to back up his racist rant about white males and terror. He’ll face no sanctions from his employer at CNN or from the editorial boards at The New York Times, Washington Post or Huffington Post. Why is this? Because CNN and their ilk gives him license to make these racist statement.


Here is some pretty good data:
Over the last decade, 71% of domestic extremist related killings in the US were linked to right-wing extremists, while Islamic extremists committed 26% of the killings, the report notes. An Islamic extremist committed the single deadliest incident in 2017: the New York City vehicle ramming attack killed eight people. Left-wing extremists and those who didn’t fall in the previous two categories carried out the other 3% of deaths. 2017 was the second year in a row in which black nationalists committed murders in the US.
https://qz.com/1182778/the-far-right-wa ... s-in-2017/
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 7th, 2018, 5:18 pm

Mrtazeman wrote:Nobody took this anonymous letter seriously and it wasn't the reason {Supreme Court Justice} (Just to help you out here Mrtazeman because what you actually said was not factually proven, and being the Christian that you are I am sure you did not mean to bear false witness on somebody) Kavanaugh was being questioned. Besides It is Kind of confusing, she lied about writing the letter but the real author who wrote the anonymous letter is still not identified. )
The only thing you have proven is that there should have been a thoroughly FBI investigation.

Actually Mrtazeman, I have not proven anything. I presented commentary from Retired Sheriff David Clarke and Karen Kataline. But if " nobody took this anonymous letter seriously, then why did the Democrats speak about it? Why not ask why Ms. Kataline mentions it in her column, and then comment on her topic of the Left's cognitive dissonance?
Scorpion reminded you that Supreme Court Justice had 6 FBI checks prior to the FBI investigation during his confirmation hearing as "requested?" by the Democrats. And the FBI investigated Supreme Court Justice Kavanaugh as they were supposed to do.


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson ... k-n2525854
Wrong, Democrats: There Was No FBI "Cover Up." They Played It By The Book.
By Guy Benson, - Posted: Oct 05, 2018
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 7th, 2018, 5:21 pm

JuicedTruth wrote:Don't forget about the Trump supporter who tried to pay a bunch of women to accuse Mueller or sexual misconduct.


I haven't forgotten about this allegation. And I am sure that if the FBI finds wrong doing, they will proceed to file the appropriate charges.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 7th, 2018, 5:24 pm

Mrtazeman wrote:Now that the Dems won the house, the republicans better lawyer up..


I am still a registered Republican Mrtazeman. Should I "lawyer up"? Perhaps you could recommend a Christian lawyer that you know.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 7th, 2018, 5:50 pm

leftyg wrote:Michaels said: No Leftyg, Retired Sheriff David Clarke said this.
...CNN host Don Lemon called white men, “the biggest terror threat in America.” There is no way to couch that as taken out of context, wisecracking, hyperbole or metaphorically speaking. It is a raw, unadulterated, unmitigated, racist statement.
...Don Lemon has no data to back up his racist rant about white males and terror. He’ll face no sanctions from his employer at CNN or from the editorial boards at The New York Times, Washington Post or Huffington Post. Why is this? Because CNN and their ilk gives him license to make these racist statement.


Here is some pretty good data:
Over the last decade, 71% of domestic extremist related killings in the US were linked to right-wing extremists, while Islamic extremists committed 26% of the killings, the report notes. An Islamic extremist committed the single deadliest incident in 2017: the New York City vehicle ramming attack killed eight people. Left-wing extremists and those who didn’t fall in the previous two categories carried out the other 3% of deaths. 2017 was the second year in a row in which black nationalists committed murders in the US.
https://qz.com/1182778/the-far-right-wa ... s-in-2017/
Leftyg, your source does not define extremism,and it says it's findings were from the ADL. I would like to know the methodology used to arrive at what they are reporting. I don't remember exactly where I read it, but Sheriff Clarke has commented about the statistics of Black Male Crime in discussing claims that the prison system is racist because of the higher number of black males in prison than white males. In that discussion, Sheriff Clarke said that young black males were the cause of a higher percentage of violent crimes than white males. Now Don Lemon has not defined his
"terror threat" reference so that leaves us in a bit of a quandary as how to proceed. Did Mr. Lemon make a reference to the source of his claim? If Mr. Lemon did not give a source to his claim, then I am more inclined to view statistics of violent crimes as a reasonable means to ascertain who is the biggest terror threat in a geographical area.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby leftyg » November 7th, 2018, 7:23 pm

Leftyg, your source does not define extremism,and it says it's findings were from the ADL. I would like to know the methodology used to arrive at what they are reporting. I don't remember exactly where I read it, but Sheriff Clarke has commented about the statistics of Black Male Crime in discussing claims that the prison system is racist because of the higher number of black males in prison than white males. In that discussion, Sheriff Clarke said that young black males were the cause of a higher percentage of violent crimes than white males. Now Don Lemon has not defined his
"terror threat" reference so that leaves us in a bit of a quandary as how to proceed. Did Mr. Lemon make a reference to the source of his claim? If Mr. Lemon did not give a source to his claim, then I am more inclined to view statistics of violent crimes as a reasonable means to ascertain who is the biggest terror threat in a geographical area.
Listern to Don Lemon take Sheriff David Clarke to school on violence towards blacks. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=do ... ORM=VRDGAR

Sheriff Clarke is about as full of shit as anybody I can think of. He is not particularly bright and he speaks in generalities and avoids specifics like the plague.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Mrtazeman » November 7th, 2018, 8:03 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/143 ... mists/amp/

US terror attacks are increasingly motivated by right-wing views
Terrorism has been rising in the US, driven by a surge of attacks motivated by right-wing ideologies.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 7th, 2018, 10:04 pm

Leftyg. Don Lemon did not blow Sheriff Clarke out of the water in their exchange. All he did was treat him rudely and try to manipulate sheriff Clarke's questions into mythical assertions. And what he told Mr Lemon about how he misinterpreted certain references is true as i have shown you and Mrtazeman by using your own references and explaining them to you. You know when you start with a position that your not willing to change you tend to see only what your looking for.
I really dont need an in-service on terrorism in this country. But when the Left blames everything on Donald Trump they make the case that they don't know the definition of anything by their absurd comments. The latest is Barbara Streisand blaming President Trump for her pancake binges. As one writer put it, the Left blames President Trump for everything except the economy.
And Mrtazeman your link is just as poor as Leftyg's.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Mrtazeman » November 8th, 2018, 9:15 am

Are you saying that even with FBI reports cautioning everyone about right wing extremest and all the right wing violence, there is nothing to worry about?
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby leftyg » November 8th, 2018, 10:11 am

Are you saying that even with FBI reports cautioning everyone about right wing extremest and all the right wing violence, there is nothing to worry about?
RealUSA, he does not get it.

To you Michaels give me a single evidence of Sheriff Clarke making a substantive concrete statement in hi interview with Don Lemon. It is not Mr. Lemon's fault that the Sheriff came unequipped to argue. What has Black Lives Matter said that remotely equates them with the Klan?

I think the article did a fine job of defining what it called right wing violence. It is up to you to explain why it is not. So pony up.

And saying our sources are "poor" is funny coming from you.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 9th, 2018, 5:07 pm

Mrtazeman wrote:Are you saying that even with FBI reports cautioning everyone about right wing extremest and all the right wing violence, there is nothing to worry about?


Mrtazeman, I am saying that the classification of "extremist" is misleading and results in inaccurate reporting of violent events. That is all classifications of "extremists". And since they are misleading, and result in inaccurate reporting and therefore inaccurate record keeping, what you and Leftyg make references to is also inaccurate.
And I am not going to waste time, AGAIN, by going into further detail to explain this to either of you. So accept it, reject it, or ignore it, I don't care what you do with it.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 9th, 2018, 5:36 pm

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2018/11/08/kellyanne-conway-defends-trump-n2535556
Conway Defends Trump Calling Out Black Reporter For 'Racist' Question
By Leah Barkoukis

White House counselor Kellyanne Conway defended President Trump on Wednesday for telling a black reporter from “PBS NewsHour” that her question was “racist.”The journalist, Yamiche Alcindor, was asking President Trump during a contentious press conference about his identification as a “nationalist.”

The president has previously explained that to him, nationalism means he loves the country and is fighting for America first. As in Make America Great Again. Make America, No hyphen here in Ameirca. President Trump is not striving to make one group great. He is and has been striving to make ALL America Great Again.

Conway explained that “there’s a difference between nationalism and white nationalism.” As if this would actually be necessary for anyone else except the Democrats, and the liberals, who spin and interpret every event, every issue as a negative if President Trump is involved. The liberal media went nuts to defend this reporter including to suggest that she could not be racist because she is Black. And there it is again. The liberals do not accept their own cognitive dissonance. They no not accept the examples showing them to be fascists, and racists. They think that they alone are the ones who should judge others according to their own standards and their own definitions.

“I believe that what he was saying to your colleague Yamiche is that the implication of racism in the word ‘nationalist’ is very unfortunate, because there’s a difference between nationalism and white nationalism,” she told “PBS NewsHour” anchor Judy Woodruff.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby leftyg » November 9th, 2018, 11:27 pm

I think you said my source did not operationalize or define the term terrorist act or hate group or how the two are related.

This is how the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) defines it:
A spokesperson for the ADL explains that the report “looks at known murders or killings by perpetrators associated with domestic extremist movements. We are not accounting for all acts of violence, such as mass shootings.” However, if a mass shooting, such Charleston or San Bernardino, was found to be linked to an extremist movement and resulted in death, then the ADL would include it.
https://qz.com/1182778/the-far-right-wa ... s-in-2017/

Don't try to wiggle out of this. The definition and the problem are obvious, and it is obvious that the right wing is the biggest culprit.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 10th, 2018, 6:46 pm

leftyg wrote:I think you said my source did not operationalize or define the term terrorist act or hate group or how the two are related.


This is not just a problem for ADL. :
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/why-the-fbis-black-identity-extremist-classification-is-dangerous
Why the FBI's "Black Identity Extremist" Classification Is Dangerous

On October 6, 2017, a 12-page report prepared in August 2017 by the FBI Domestic Terrorism Analysis Unit surfaced, warning the nation of an emergent domestic terrorism threat endangering the lives of law enforcement agents throughout the nation: the “Black Identity Extremist” movement. In the report, the FBI defines this group as "individuals who seek, wholly or in part, through unlawful acts of force or violence, in response to perceived racism and injustice in American society,” to establish “a separate black homeland or autonomous black social institutions, communities, or governing organizations within the United States."
Simply put, the FBI considers a "Black Identity Extremist" to be an African-American who engages in illegal, defiant, or violent behavior that they justify by suggesting their behavior is a response to racism.
Yet despite the use of the term, the FBI admits that, even by its own definition, violence perpetrated by so-called “black identity extremists” has been rare over the past 20 years. When asked why the bureau used the term, former Department of Homeland Security intelligence agent Daryl Johnson told Foreign Policy, “I have no idea,” and former FBI agent Michael German, who’s now a fellow with the Brennan Center for Justice’s liberty and national security program, speculated to Foreign Policy that the FBI effectively made up the term to classify “black people who scare them.”
...The FBI also told the outlet that there are currently “nine persistent extremist movements” in the U.S., including “white supremacy, black identities, militia, sovereign citizens, anarchists, abortion, animal rights, environmental rights, and Puerto Rican Nationalism.”)
Really? According to the FBI; Abortion, Animal Rights, & Environmental Rights are dangerous, - "EXTREMISTS"?

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/maajid-nawaz-southern-law-poverty-center-muslim-extremist/2018/06/18/id/866845/
SPLC Settles, Apologizes for 'Anti-Muslim Extremist' Labeling

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-herald/20180921/281844349550809
Sturgeon rejects extremists label for fracking protests. By Tom Gordon

http://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-american-football-player-denies-extremist-label/?fb_comment_id=162459220608323_212447
Palestinian-American football player rejects ‘extremist’ label

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/05/17/476898973/russias-jehovahs-witnesses-fight-extremist-label-possible-ban
Russia's Jehovah's Witnesses Fight 'Extremist' Label, Possible Ban

And you can always review the efficacy of Labeling, the problems presented from labeling from a sociological point of view - go to Wikipedia for starters.

Leftyg, we have agreed in the past on the problems involved in defining terms when discussing the number involved in mass shootings, and in other areas. The problem remains with Extremists labeling.
Why are some murders that are committed, found to be totally shocking and considered by their neighbors to be done by nice people that never raised a red flag before this incident? How did labeling help when no label was known beforehand and in many crimes, the attempt is made to reconstruct the life of the perpetrator in order to understand the crime. And then there is the problem of copy cat crimes which are not committed by the same type of person that would fit some psychological profile, but yet gets recorded as being most likely done by ...X and placed under a label.
We are still living through the Mueller probe/investigation, where everything that happens according to the Liberals points to and proves that President Trump is behind it''; and we know now that isn't even close to the truth. The liberals did the same to Justice Kavanaugh.
I can see a riot occurring and at the aftermath a reporter going through the scene and finding two hats lying on the ground. The reporter picks up both hats, one is a Black Lives Matter Hat, and the other is a Pro-Life hat. The Black Lives matter hat is seen to have what looks like some blood on it. The Pro-Life hat looks a little dirty but no blood. The next day the reporter publishes what he found and the heading to the article says something like Pro-life march leads to Bloodshed.

The extremists labeling is not a satisfactory nor objective definition. The examples above show some of the problems that are involved in the "extremists label".
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby leftyg » November 11th, 2018, 12:55 pm

Really? According to the FBI; Abortion, Animal Rights, & Environmental Rights are dangerous, - "EXTREMISTS"?
But they have killed no one. Anti-abortion fanatics have,

I read your comments about labeling extremist groups. The right has been doing a lot of this lately. It is them who have opened up this subject. Everyday Michael Medved, by far the sanest voice on the right has said that liberal groups are more prone to violence than conservatives, while it is right wing groups who are killing people. Local spokesliar Bob Frantz has often said that liberals are more caustic than conservatives when he talks about offensive things some left leaning commentators have said yet he ignore the comments of Ted Nugent and other right wing provocateurs.

I will admit that the Kavanaugh hearing was hurtful, but the whole Clinton impeachment was too. With Trump the whole thing is different. This is not about private consensual behavior or something somebody did when they were a kid: this is about a president manipulating the system to his benefit and to that of his family and his businesses. Some of this is pretty obvious, and I think the investigation of Trump by Congress, even if the president gets a yes man attorney general to fire Mueller will be far more fruitful than anything on hapless Benghazi, the most wasteful investigation in history.

So when you think you have anything against our side, you say "investigate away," but when it is your side it is the old "everybody does it" ploy. The Mueller investigation and the congressional investigations of Trump's behavior must run their course. If nothing is found, Dems will exonerate. Don't worry, they will not bother to impeach him because they do not have the votes in the Senate to get a conviction; they are not as partisan as the Repubicans who tried for a conviction anyway.

But back to our one glaring specific: the right does more murders than the left according t data and by a very wide margin.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 13th, 2018, 6:29 pm

Leftyg,
Please explain your comment here: "But they have killed no one. Anti-abortion fanatics have,"

I just made a comment regarding the FBI's list of "Nine Persistent Extremists Movements in the US. Lets look again at that list: "White Supremacy, black identities, militia, sovereign citizens, anarchists, abortion, animal rights, environmental rights, and Puerto Rican Nationalism."
First, when you say But they have killed no one, who is they? Next, you said: "Anti-abortion fanatics have" The FBI lists Abortion, NOT Anti-abortion fanatics. Abortionists have killed women (along with babies), and there is a movie about Kermit Gosnell who was convicted of murdering three infants who were born alive.
The FBI lists abortion, as a group, lets remember that here.
Now lets return to your response to me, (regarding the ADL)
A spokesperson for the ADL explains that the report “looks at known murders or killings by perpetrators associated with domestic extremist movements. We are not accounting for all acts of violence, such as mass shootings.” However, if a mass shooting, such Charleston or San Bernardino, was found to be linked to an extremist movement and resulted in death, then the ADL would include it.

So the ADL "looks at known murders or killings So the first problem is that the ADL looks at "known murders". There may be more, but they were only looking at "known murders. Next, "by perpetrators associated with domestic extremist movements." I am still curious as to what criteria was used to determine the association with domestic extremist movements. Nine years ago, Nidal Hasan fatally shot 13 people and injured more than 30 others. He shouted "Allahu Akbar!" and then opened fire. This was described as a mass shooting. The ADA said they were not accounting for acts of violence, such as mass shootings and then qualified that statement saying: "However, if a mass shooting, such as Charleston or San Bernardino (but apparently not Fort Hood), was found to be linked to an extremist movement and resulted in death, then the ADL would include it.
Well the Ford Hood mass shooting was linked to an extremist movement, it did result in death, and the ADL did not include it. WHY?
In Chicago, there has been 475 murders so far this year. How many of those murders were done by the FBI's defined(?) category of White Supremacy? How many of the murders done in Chicago or in any and all cities of the United States were done by each of the FBI's defined list of Persistent Extremists Movements? The answer that the FBI will say is that they really don't know. So if the FBI with all of their resources cannot tell us how many murders were attributed by each of these Nine Persistent Extremists Movements, (because like the ADL said, they only look at "known murders"), then how legitimate is anybody's list of murders by any "extremist" movement?
But going back to my list of Abortion, Animal Rights, and Environmental Rights. Without researching this, how many people in these groups killed people, or how many people were killed that were attributed to these "extremist groups"?
Now how many people do you think were killed by other groups like gangs (outside), and or prison (inside) gangs? I don't know, and I really am not that curious to look it up, but I think that more murders have been attributed to the M-13 gangs, than to any other "extremist group."
The whole point to this is that with a good operational definition of an extremist group, (and I don't think there is a good one, for any group), you still can not be sure of how accurate it is.
And the other problem is to what use are these distinctions except as political tools? We have known about gangs and subcultures for decades. And murder has been part of every society and country in the world, so how are these extremist labels helping?
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby leftyg » November 13th, 2018, 6:47 pm

Michaels, the number of hate killings by white supremacists was 71% of all hate killings. Obviously if a mass shooting is a hate crime it is counted, and all the victims are counted. Do not try to be cute here. The methodology is pretty self-explanatory. And when you think of it, when was the last time that there was a killing by q leftist. They do not happen very often. And the right tends to play down violence by right wing groups.

Bob Frantz, not long ago, quoting Sheriff David Clarke, said that it might be alright for the right to use "pitchforks and torches" to get what they wanted https://soundcloud.com/am-1420-the-answ ... -2016-hr-2 (listen to the last two minutes from 37 minutes until the end)

So Bob and the Sheriff both reserve the right for conservatives. And ask yourself the question: how long would the standoff at the bird preserve in Oregon have lasted if the culprits were Black Lives Matter? You know that feds would have just gone in and gunned them down. You see Michaels, the right wing literally gets away with murder. But let a black man take a knee during the National Anthem and all hell breaks loose.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 14th, 2018, 7:24 pm

leftyg wrote:Michaels, the number of hate killings by white supremacists was 71% of all hate killings. Obviously if a mass shooting is a hate crime it is counted, and all the victims are counted. Do not try to be cute here. The methodology is pretty self-explanatory. And when you think of it, when was the last time that there was a killing by q leftist. They do not happen very often. And the right tends to play down violence by right wing groups.

Leftyg, There were a total of 17,284 reported murder and non-negligent manslaughter cases in the US in 2017. https://www.statista.com/statistics/195331/number-of-murders-in-the-us-by-state/
Your reference states
In total, extremists killed at least 34 people in 2017.
34 people! What percent of the total reported murder and non-negligent manslaughter cases were made by extremists in 2017?
And the sample used by the ADL consisted of 18 events. Of the 18 events listed 7 events were not listed conclusively but rather as "allegedly did x, or charged with x, or accused of X. In two events, two people were charged with the killing of one person.
Under methodology:
The incidents are derived primarily from public sources, leading to some limitations regarding cross-era or cross-movement comparisons. Regarding cross-era comparisons, generally speaking, information on extremist-related killings from the 1970s and 1980s is more difficult to obtain than for later years; thus it may not be meaningful to compare or contrast figures from the earlier era with figures from the 1990s or later.

The main limitation of cross-movement comparisons is that extremist connections to killings are easier to determine for some movements than for others. For example, white supremacists, who frequently sport many racist and white supremacist tattoos, or who may be documented as white supremacists by gang investigators or corrections officials, are often more easily identifiable. In contrast, it may be more difficult for police or media to identify, say, anti-government extremist associations that a suspect might have. This issue comes up most often with non-ideological killings rather than ideologically-motivated ones. It is fair to say that non-ideological murders committed by extremists other than white supremacists are probably underrepresented here.

In addition, because murders that occur behind bars often get little or no reporting by the media, and are typically not publicized by prison officials, prison-based violence by all extremist movements is definitely under-represented.

From your reference; The "far-right extremists were responsible for 59% of the extremists killings in 2017 or a total of 20 deaths. Go ahead and do the math. What percent of the total reported murders and non-negligent manslaughter's does the 20 (attributed to the far- right) amount to? And by the way, your figure of 71% covers a nine year period where the total number of killings attributed to extremists during that time span was 387. And remember, so far this year there have been 475 murders in the city of Chicago, alone!
All of this is just as I said to Mrtazeman,
the classification of "extremist" is misleading and results in inaccurate reporting of violent events. That is all classifications of "extremists". And since they are misleading, and result in inaccurate reporting and therefore inaccurate record keeping,

What the ADL have reported, amounts to the fallacy of a Hasty Generalization. And the total number of deaths attributed to far-right extremists is not even statistically significant.
Look, you believe what you want to believe. And I don't care what your infatuation is with the far-right since I am not an "extremist" of any kind, unless you care to label me one because I am against abortion
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby leftyg » November 14th, 2018, 11:23 pm

Michaels what you say is true but irrelevant to this conversation. We are talking about terrorist hate killings. I have heard Michael Medved say that most political violence is committed by Democrats or the left. That has been a right wing talking point for a while, and it is not true. I think your side should drop it like a hot potato.

I am very conversant with the number of deaths in this country. We limited the conversation to politically motivated acts of terror.. Don't conflate all acts of violence into it. Besides we stell have by far the highest murder rate of any technologically advance wealthy countries.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 17th, 2018, 5:25 pm

leftyg wrote:Michaels what you say is true and because it is true, what the ADL reorted (for 34 killings) is both statistcally insignificant and as a political comment, irrelevant. The only thing that the ADL can say is that in 2017 they believe 18 incidents (by some unspecified criteria), is being attributed to extremist killings.

Regarding Sheriff Clarke (retired), look at my May 31st post in "Gun control ideas crumbled when researched."
And although i dont listen to Mr. Medved, perhaps the political violence he was linking to the left was in regards to the illegal aliens and their murders? Go look at my July 29th post in my "Gun control ideas crumbled when researched." - thread.
but irrelevant to this conversation. We are talking about terrorist hate killings. I have heard Michael Medved say that most political violence is committed by Democrats or the left. That has been a right wing talking point for a while, and it is not true. I think your side should drop it like a hot potato.

I am very conversant with the number of deaths in this country. We limited the conversation to politically motivated acts of terror.. Don't conflate all acts of violence into it. Besides we stell have by far the highest murder rate of any technologically advance wealthy countries.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby leftyg » November 17th, 2018, 5:45 pm

and because it is true, what the ADL reorted (for 34 killings) is both statistcally insignificant and as a political comment, irrelevant. The only thing that the ADL can say is that in 2017 they believe 18 incidents (by some unspecified criteria), is being attributed to extremist killings.
Michaels, you do not know what you are talking about; calling 34 killings "insignificant" without fully explaining the context makes no sense at all. Was it insignificant at the .05 level at the .01 level what? That number of killings is significant to social science researchers because it is made in comparison to something else. Our total number of murders in this country is low compared to third world countries and is thus significantly better by comparison, but it is significantly worse than other technologically advanced countries.

You are the one trying to make this political. I m trying to see your point. But you are not making one. You are spouting nonsense because you showed no reasoning for the idea that 34 killings by terrorists is insignificant. Were I to run an F test, or an anova, I am fairly sure that 71% of killings would stick out like a sore thumb compared to 26% for Muslims and 3% for leftist terrorists, I would find statistical significance.

[color=#BF0040]Regarding Sheriff Clarke (retired), look at my May 31st post in "Gun control ideas crumbled when researched."
And although i dont listen to Mr. Medved, perhaps the political violence he was linking to the left was in regards to the illegal aliens and their murders? Go look at my July 29th post in my "Gun control ideas crumbled when researched." *
A person like Shreiff Clarke seldom backs up what he says with facts. That assumption is a real long shot. I think it is more likely people like the shooter who shot Steve Scalise. Besides alien violence is generally overrated as this article by the conservative think tank the Cato Institute suggests https://reason.com/archives/2018/02/01/ ... -and-crime


*for some stupid reason I have tried to color Michaels latter comment in red, but the computer denied the color change about ten times
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 17th, 2018, 6:31 pm

Leftyg. How many times does somebody have to repeat something to you? I said that the reported 20 killings was statistically insignificant to the total killings reported in 2017. 11/14/18 post here.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby leftyg » November 17th, 2018, 7:42 pm

Leftyg. How many times does somebody have to repeat something to you? I said that the reported 20 killings was statistically insignificant to the total killings reported in 2017. 11/14/18 post here.
That is meaningless. Yes 20 killings or 34 or whatever may or may not be insignificant dependent on sample size and comparison. You have to make comparisons. For example,just becase the amount of arsenic someone ingest is only one ounce and they weigh 200 pounds does not mean anything, You are comparing the number of total murders with a subset. And your assertion is irrelevant.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 18th, 2018, 12:42 am

leftyg wrote:
Leftyg. How many times does somebody have to repeat something to you? I said that the reported 20 killings was statistically insignificant to the total killings reported in 2017. 11/14/18 post here.
That is meaningless. Yes 20 killings or 34 or whatever may or may not be insignificant dependent on sample size and comparison. You have to make comparisons. For example,just becase the amount of arsenic someone ingest is only one ounce and they weigh 200 pounds does not mean anything, You are comparing the number of total murders with a subset. And your assertion is irrelevant.
if you can ignore the actual numbers which are insignificant to the total number of killings, and say that that comparison is meaningless (as a subset) then the subset which represents that number is meaningless as well. There is no other conclusion. You want empirical data that is supported by official statistics and what you actually have are some generalized findings that are not given an operational definition that can be used to distinguish it against false comparisons. The sample size is a joke. And the actual numbers reported are statistically insignificant. You have nothing from which to make any kind of useful finding. How is an extremist killing different than a hate crime? If you can't even make that distinction then making another subset category serves no purpose. Do you remember the Patty Hearst bank robbery? With pictures of her in the bank holding a machine gun they said she really was not part of the gang that robbed the bank. Do you think that does not happen in prisons where gangs buy pigeons as their private property and then brand their property for all to see. And then these gang leaders tell their property who to kill. But the ADL has no operational definition except what is reported in the media, which is considered hearsay unless it is corroborated by two or more witnesses, with an operstional definition to go by. A mass killing is an event where 3 or 4 (or more) are killed. An extremist killing is one where a person with a certain tatoo kills somebody. What about somebody who shares the same views but does not have a tatoo? How do you distinguish something without an operational definition that leaves no room for error?....You can't.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby leftyg » November 18th, 2018, 4:25 pm

if you can ignore the actual numbers which are insignificant to the total number of killings, and say that that comparison is meaningless (as a subset) then the subset which represents that number is meaningless as well. There is no other conclusion. You want empirical data that is supported by official statistics and what you actually have are some generalized findings that are not given an operational definition that can be used to distinguish it against false comparisons. The sample size is a joke. And the actual numbers reported are statistically insignificant. You have nothing from which to make any kind of useful finding. How is an extremist killing different than a hate crime? If you can't even make that distinction then making another subset category serves no purpose. Do you remember the Patty Hearst bank robbery? With pictures of her in the bank holding a machine gun they said she really was not part of the gang that robbed the bank. Do you think that does not happen in prisons where gangs buy pigeons as their private property and then brand their property for all to see. And then these gang leaders tell their property who to kill. But the ADL has no operational definition except what is reported in the media, which is considered hearsay unless it is corroborated by two or more witnesses, with an operstional definition to go by. A mass killing is an event where 3 or 4 (or more) are killed. An extremist killing is one where a person with a certain tatoo kills somebody. What about somebody who shares the same views but does not have a tatoo? How do you distinguish something without an operational definition that leaves no room for error?....You can't.
I am going to trust the ADL's data. The simple truth is when was the last time you heard of a killing as a hate crime where the perp was left leaning? Yes they happen: the shooter in Dallas and the one in Louisiana who who shot police officers; they were probably left leaning politically. But the shooter in the Pittsburgh synagogue and the abortion clinic killer among many others were right leaning, and we hear a lot of that kind of violence. .

Also, look what happened when a group of far right terrorists took over a bird sanctuary in Oregon. They were all acquitted except for two who were pardoned by Trump https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/politics ... index.html That does not happen on the left. If Black Lives Matter had taken over that bird sanctuary then a bunch of them, perhaps all of them, would be dead and Bob Frantz would be defending the action on his radio show.

A mass killing and a random killing of one person are two different things, and the ADL article explains that. They have not, nor have I conflated anything. This statistic is not about the number of hate killings that are mass shootings; this is about the number of purely hate killings in this country. Is it small? yes Is it insignificant? no

Michaels, you are going round and round about nothing.
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Re: A BOGO for Liberal Democrats

Postby Michaels153 » November 20th, 2018, 6:03 pm

Leftyg,
Like it says in Ecclesiastes chapter 3: "A time to be born, a time to die;" That truth being said, I view life as sacred and death as a sadness. All life is significant to me. When referring to the findings of the ADL, their findings are "statistically insignificant" not that the lives lost are insignificant.

We are not going to agree here.

I am surprised that you especially would defend the ADL's findings considering that if I had shared 20 examples of defensive gun uses, you would dismiss all of them as anecdotal. When there were much more by way of examples of people receiving tax breaks and wage increases you again said that they were not enough to make any kind of inference about President Trump's tax plan.

But here you trust the ADL's findings. Here you have no problem with their 20 examples.

I read your link from the Cato institute. It was a good reference and it did show weaknesses in the assumed calculations made of Alien/illegal violence. Here again your willing to accept
the findings revealed here from the Cato institute, but when I reveal the weaknesses and flaws presented by the ADL, it doesn't matter to you.
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